Talk:Spartacist uprising

Execution of Liebknecht and Luxemburg

Is this the correct term or would murder be more appropriate? After all, "execution" does not strictly imply unlawfulness of the killing (whereas, according to the article, the killing of Liebknecht was in direct contradiction to orders). Koo Kee (talk) 09:26, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Bloody Week

Moved from user talk:czar

I can't find any other source besides Schwartzwald that refer to the uprising as Bloody Week. There aren't any German hits on "blutige Woche" either, except for the Paris Commune, which is also where most of the English searches end up. I'm fairly familiar with the topic and the period through my reading and my translations from German Wikipedia articles, and I never saw any Bloody Week references while I was verifying sources and info. Because of that, I'd like to have your update reverted unless you have something else to back up the usage of the phrase. It's probably better left with the Paris Commune.

Thanks, GHStPaulMN (talk) 15:03, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@GHStPaulMN Reichstag Bloodbath and Spartacist uprising both come to mind in case there's confusion from author/editors. ~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 15:16, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@Shushugah Sorry, but I don't quite understand your point. What's the connection between the Reichstag Bloodbath and the Sparticist uprising -- or for that matter to referring to the latter as the Bloody Week? And how would they clear up any confusion? GHStPaulMN (talk) 15:29, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@Shushugah It belatedly came to me what you mean, and I agree that there's unlikely to be confusion, but for a different reason -- that I don't think Bloody Week is at all a common way to refer to the Sparticist uprising, so it's simply not likely to come up. I still know of only the one use of the phrase, and after reading p. 288 in Schwartzwald with its rather inflammatory wording (that I would flag in Wikipedia for its tone), I have question marks in my head about how reliable a source it is. So again, unless you know of another source or sources, I don't think the update / redirect add any value and should be reverted. Your thoughts on my main point about the phrase not being common? Thanks, GHStPaulMN (talk) 22:12, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

@GHStPaulMN, my understanding is that it's fairly common: [1][2][3][4][5], in-keeping with this topic being more voluminous in German and French literature. czar 02:49, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

@Czar I'm still not convinced. As for the French references, what they call the event isn't relevant to English sources. Many nations have different names for the same event -- in fact the Germans often call the Spartakusaufstand the Januarkämpfe or Januaraufstand. I couldn't find the reference in the Bloxham book, and the Eitz/Engelhardt is a reference to a use in Vorwärts, the party paper of one of the groups involved in the uprising, so not a reliable source. Even so, that's only 3 English language sources versus literally hundreds and hundreds when you query Google Books for "Spartacist uprising". "Bloody week" has all the appearances of an outlier in English that very few people are likely to be familiar with. Also, note (from the English Wikipedia article) that even though the uprising began on 5 Jan, the fighting took place on the 10th through 12th. Most of the week was taken up with strikes, building occupations, uncertainty and attempts at dialogue. Calling it a bloody week is a bit of a (propaganda?) stretch in any language. GHStPaulMN (talk) 19:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Refs

Schwartzwald, Jack L. (2022). Europe on the Path to Self-Destruction: Nationalism and the Struggle for Hegemony, 1815-1945. McFarland. p. 288. ISBN 978-1-4766-4685-5. Weill, Claudie (2003). "Women in the German Revolution: Rosa Luxemburg and the Worker's Councils". In Fauré, Christine (ed.). Political and Historical Encyclopedia of Women. Routledge. pp. 267, 270. ISBN 1579582370. Shirer, William L. (1990). Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany. Simon and Schuster. p. 55. ISBN 978-0-671-72868-7. Kerr, John (2003). Germany, 1919-39. Heinemann. p. 15. ISBN 978-0-435-32693-7.

Here are additional English-language refs. I'm not particularly concerned about where it goes in the article, but it is indeed a term that is used for the subject. (This is exactly the reason why French/German source use is relevant: English-language scholars of foreign events tend to translate the native language rather than invent new terminology. But this point is now secondary.) czar 21:21, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

@Czar OK. I'll admit that it is used occasionally. It will be interesting to see how much use the redirect gets. GHStPaulMN (talk) 22:14, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

Illustrations

Just a note but, with the exception of the troops on the Brandenburg Gate, all the illustrations are not of the Spartacist Uprising. (19 June 2023)

Illustrations

To whomever added the comment about the illustrations, what tells you that they're not of the Spartacist uprising? What are they then? Thanks. GHStPaulMN (talk) 13:51, 19 June 2024 (UTC)