Talk:Society of Devotees of the Islamic Revolution

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved Kotniski (talk) 08:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

---

Isargaran of Islamic Revolution Population → Society of Devotees of the Islamic Revolution — This will move the page to a name that sources appear to use. 75.161.72.41 (talk) 11:43, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Not all that much, as far as I can tell. How about simply "Isargaran"?--Kotniski (talk) 06:44, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

How can you tell? Only Wikipedia and its mirrors use the dubious phrase "Islamic Revolution Population". The sources in the article say "Society of Devotees of the Islamic Revolution". It is my understanding that "Isargaran" is ambiguous. How about using what reliable sources use? 75.161.86.228 (talk) 00:49, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

What sources are you looking at? When I click the links given in the article, one of them calls them the Isargaran and never mentions your phrase, the other uses your phrase once, in brackets, as a translation of the original name. --Kotniski (talk) 05:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

It's still a sourced translation, and in one it's not verbatim, it uses "Islamic Revolution Devotees". In anycase it's not MY translation. 75.161.86.228 (talk) 18:21, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, whoever's it is, it's still just a translation, and appears (only?) in this one place. I don't see any evidence that it's used in English to refer to this organization (as opposed to merely explaining what its name means). Though I'm not defending the page's present title either.--Kotniski (talk) 07:30, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand your purpose then, maybe to suggest an endonymic transliteration? That would work. Do you maybe want to bring forward any other tranlated title(s?) from reliable source(s). The two sources in the article translate the name of the party as 1.) " Islamic Revolution Devotees Society" and two 2.) "Society of Devotees of the Islamic Revolution". In English the use of the genitive preposition is somewhat freely interchangeable with the possessive clitic, or simply a phrase of nouns and adjective, therefore, these can be deemed to be independent rough translations that have arrived at the same conclusion. 75.161.86.228 (talk) 21:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not disputing that it's a good explanatory translation, but that doesn't make it the English name (when one of the sources starts talking about the party in English, it calls it the Isargaran). I don't really know what this party is called in English usage (if there is any significant amount of such usage) - I've asked at WT:WikiProject Iran to see if anyone can help resolve this.--Kotniski (talk) 07:59, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

It is my understanding that the source you are referring to is talking about this party throughout the paper, when the author finishes providing background information, he introduces the party and explains that although at times informally referred to as "Isargaran" the nickname is ambiguous and is ascribed to other organizations. The author's recurring use may be to avoid repetition of a bulky phrase (a real longshot!). For example: if the majority of occurrences in print referred to "Mr. Jones" his article would still be "Jack Jones", because we know this is an editorial shortening. If you are looking for evidence of English usage of the proposed title, I shouldn't have to tell you to look first, and again, at the sources provided. I don't know why you think that a translated title of a party not discussed often in English would not be counted as English name usage. Sounds to me more like a riddle than a constructive editorial position.75.161.86.228 (talk) 22:14, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion, Society of Devotees of the Islamic Revolution is the best title, as it's the precise and complete translation of its Persian name.--Aliwiki (talk) 11:01, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

All right, since there were no other objectors, I've renamed the article and set up a redirect from Isargaran.--Kotniski (talk) 08:34, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.