Talk:Slavery among Native Americans in the United States

Merger proposal

I propose merging Native American slave ownership into Slavery among Native Americans in the United States. Having two separate articles can lead to WP:CFORK, and decreases the visibility of both articles. I think a merger would not cause any article-size or weighting problems. --Brinerat (talk) 13:11, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Oppose. I think it would be better to distinguish incidents of Native Americans owning slaves and Native Americans themselves being enslaved. 192.107.137.242 (talk) 19:05, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

:Oppose. For same reasons as anonymous IP above.--Hobomok (talk) 03:06, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Support no such distinction is made, the first article says it is about ownership of slaves by native americans, and this article is about slavery by (and of) Native Americans, ergo they cover the same scope and should be merged. Additionally, both articles are only about the United States (although the first is less explicit about that), further limiting their scope and making them redundant. 2600:8800:239F:A900:E43C:641A:8A28:966F (talk) 04:34, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

As it's been 8 months and no positive consensus seems to be forming, I removed the tap per WP:SNOW to improve visibility of the article. For what it's worth, I think the opposition may have been based on a misunderstanding, but it's unlikely to see a reverse of momentum if carried on any further. If you disagree, feel free to put the tag back up. 2600:8800:239F:A900:C484:E49C:EE8A:6DF (talk) 16:29, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Some notes on buying/selling and "chattel" distinction

It appears as though one or more of the authors of this article have attempted to create a distinction here that Native Americans did not buy, sell, and trade slaves as property and that the system of 'chattel' slavery was invented or otherwise introduced by arriving Europeans. Several sources have been offered to support that, wherein the idea is never even suggested or is outright contradicted. So it would appear that this is an original idea created by an author in search of a source. To begin with what the sources actually say:

(Indian Slavery In Colonial Times, Lauber) pg 26-27 "The slaves possessed by a givern Indian tribe were oftener obtained through barter with other tribes. This intertribal traffic, though probably not common, was evidently far-reaching." pg 32 "The Menominee did not usually engage in these distant wars, but they, and probably other tribes, had Pawnee slaves whom they purchased of the Ottawa, Sauk and others who had captured them" pg 37 "The existence of barter or trade among the different tribes [...] as a means of obtaining slaves has been already noted. Hence it follows that slaves, along with wampum, furs, etc., served as a medkium of exchange in trade. Furthermore, they served as gifts or objects of barter whereby capives belonging to the possessor's tribe might be obtained, and by which an unfriendly tribe of individual might be placated."

(Indian Slavery in Colonial America, Gallay) pg 8 "Some Native American societies were slaving societies - where pursuit of captives was central to the culture and economy"

(Indians of North America) pg 332 "Slaves were obtained by taking prisoners in raids, but, once slave status was established, the slave could be bought or sold, either from one society to another or from one freeman to another within the same society. The owner had the power of life and death over the slave" ... "Slaves were allowed to marry each other in most localities, but their children usually remained slaves, thus showing that slavery was hereditary."

So while we can talk about the change of scale or culture that came with the international slave trade, any suggestion that these things were unknown to the native American is wrong, and raises questions as to why that narrative is being suggested. Additionally I think we should use caution in suggesting too much of a distinction between slaves and prisoners of war, because as the authors point out, all slaves are prisoners. The only real difference is the fine line between product of war and by-product of war. 24.251.107.39 (talk) 18:12, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Alaska's Southeast Coast

Where does Alaska have an eastern coast? Doesn't Canada border on its East? 2600:1700:F7E0:D870:8EA:4F51:1AEB:7624 (talk) 16:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

It's not the coast on the southeastern side of Alaska, but the coast of Southeast Alaska. Is this an incorrect way to put it? —Lights and freedom (talk ~ contribs) 21:33, 25 June 2023 (UTC)