Talk:Semantic data model

Semantic data model vs. conceptual data model

The text says that a semantic data model is sometimes called conceptual data model.

Does that mean, that it is just a synonym and the two articles could be merged? Or is there any difference in meaning?

--80.136.6.150 (talk) 16:52, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

The problem here is that there is no real article about conceptual data model, just about conceptual schema, which if I am not mistaken is more about database modeling. -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 21:26, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

You are right. I also know the term "conceptual schema" from the database context (ANSI-SPARC Architecture). Then probably, it is not correct to use the terms "conceptual schema" and "conceptual data model" synonymously like it is done here: conceptual schema. On the other hand these terms are used very inconsistently in literature (some authors claim that "conceptual schema" is not the same as "conceptual data model" / others use these terms interchangeably). --80.136.42.27 (talk) 18:15, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

I am still not sure. I did ask almost the same question 9 months ago, see here, and again in a discussion 6 months ago on the talk:Data model page (see my 23:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC) comment). I guess you are right about these terms are used indifferent meanings. The theory is far from clear here.

For example I am still wondering if the term conceptual data model should redirect to conceptual schema or Logical data model. And if there is a real difference between conceptual and logical data models...!? What do you think? -- Marcel Douwe Dekker (talk) 19:38, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think that conceptual and logical data models are not the same. A conceptual data model is completely independent from a data storage technology (e.g. relational, hierarchical, network or object database model, XML, etc.), while a logical data model is intended for relational databases and is closer to the physical data model, but independent from a specific relational DBMS implementation (Oracle, DB2, etc.). I know at least one modelling tool, which distinguishes these 3 data model types in the way I described.
But I still have to think about the distinction between "conceptual data model" and "conceptual schema"... --80.136.3.28 (talk) 18:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Terms are used very fuzzy and different among authors but you can separate semantic data[base] models = conceptual data[base] models and logical data models. A "schema" in both cases is a model expressed in a specific modeling language. So a "conceptual schema" is a semantic data model expressed in ERM, UML, ORM or similar language. -- JakobVoss (talk) 05:40, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

The qualifier "semantic" suggests that an 'ordinary' data model is *not* semantic. This is patently false: any data model is a representation of object classes/types and the stereotypical relationship types between them. That is semantic. I suspect that the term is invented by someone who really has little understanding of data modelling generally, nor what the term "semantics" means (excuse the pun) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.169.22.32 (talk) 17:19, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

This didn't start in the 1990s

This article is very incomplete. People such as Jean-Raymond Abrial introduced the first semantic data models in the early 1970s to allow models to get closer to domain descriptions in natural language. That problem was widely discussed at the time. Their work should at least be mentioned. Rp (talk) 10:42, 30 March 2022 (UTC)