Talk:Samvel Ter-Sahakyan

Age when achieving GM title

The author of this entry states that he became a GM "the day before his 15th birthday", citing chessgames.com as source. But this site is not a reliable source at all, their biographies are full of inaccuracies, which are sometimes even quite serious. Besides it's quite nonsensical: Ter-Sahakyan was born in September, but the World Youth Chess Championship 2008 started in October! How did he become a GM "the day before his 15th birthday" in an event that started after his 15th birthday?! Sophia91 (talk) 15:07, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

I have a source, saying he got the title four rounds into the European Boys Championship in 2008, one day short of 15 years old. He already had the norms, just needed the rating. Not a FIDE site sadly but its something. Jkmaskell (talk) 15:21, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. So it was the 2008 European Youth Chess Championship, and not the World Youth Chess Championship, as stated by cg.com. Sophia91 (talk) 16:10, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

I have him rated 2495 in the October rating list. The first event that counted towards the next rating list was the European one which was in September but went towards the January 2009 rating list. He gained the five points after a third round win against a Hungarian Norbert Lorand, according to chess-results. The event finished a week before the October list which explains the delay. Jkmaskell (talk) 16:24, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

It's hard to know how nitpicky we should be with these matters, but FIDE say that he was awarded the title in 2009, which was probably the physical posting of his certificate and amending of the GM register, a few weeks after his title was 'ratified' at the November 2008 Congress in Dresden (FIDE Records). So the question is, are we happy to say that someone 'became' a grandmaster in October 2008, when really, they just became eligible to be considered for the title. It's an argument we've had before, but I can't recall what was resolved. I guess we should be consistent, so when we say that Sergey Karjakin became the youngest ever GM at 12 yrs 7 mths, did that refer to his 'qualifying result' or actual date of award? Does anyone know? Brittle heaven (talk) 17:40, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

I always thought the clock stopped when you fulfilled the requirements regardless of when the next Congress meeting or whatever was, therefore Karjakin was 12y7m when he either hit the 2500 rating (live rating counts) or gets the last norm. The rule might have been different in the past. Jkmaskell (talk) 18:31, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, some changes with time perhaps, particularly with the advent of 'live rating'. Back to my point - Karjakin's record breaking age does appear to relate to a specific tournament result (according to a bit of non-scholarly Googling). So I guess it is okay, from a consistency POV here at Wiki, that we talk of titles being awarded once the eligibility criteria is fulfilled rather than the title 'ratified' or 'certificate issued' dates. We should be aware however, that this approach will be at odds with what is shown in FIDE player record files. Brittle heaven (talk) 01:53, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

What I think is best is to say he fulfilled the GM requirements and was granted the title on xyz. The current rules do say you can get the rating during an event, but just for the sake of clarity both should be mentioned. I'll look at the language. Jkmaskell (talk) 08:44, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Good idea. 'Fulfilled the requirements' or similar would keep things more correct. Needn't necessarily say when it was ratified etc., if it sounds too wordy. Brittle heaven (talk) 10:47, 17 March 2016 (UTC)