Talk:Rendang

What does "Declined by household helps" mean? Tantalising! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.40.209.196 (talk) 06:20, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Rendanggate or rendangate?

The source article (#84) uses rendangate in its title, but I think you'd generally use -ggate. Which spelling should be used in the article? Adrey (talk) 18:02, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Curry?

I don't understand why the article implies a "curry" must make use of "curry powder". 86.139.215.130 17:19, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't. It says: "rendang is nothing like a curry and does not contain curry powder" (Caniago 22:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC))

How does that make it not imply that curry must use curry powder? The article appears to offer the fact that it does not use curry powder as evidence it's not a curry. Whereas in actual fact I would be very surprised if it used curry powder if it was an authentically traditional recipe, curry or not. 81.154.143.216 01:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

How does it imply curries must use curry powder? If I said "elephants are nothing like birds and do not have wheels", you cannot infer anything about the relationship between birds and wheels - the two parts of the sentence are completely unrelated. (Caniago 02:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC))

Black pepper or chilis?

Years ago I read somewhere that a real Sumatran Rendang contained no chilis, only (black) pepper. I've recently done some searching and found no indication of this, though I do have at least one recipe (in Malay) that stipulates only black pepper. Can anybody here shed light on this? Groogle (talk) 07:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

In Malaysia rendang recipes are often (usually?) corrupted by Indian and Chinese influences, so anything is possible over there. "Authentic" rendang, the type you will find cooked in Minangkabau villages in Sumatra, according to the Indonesian cooking author Sri Owen and my own personal experience, revolves around the ingredients listed in this article - ginger, galangal, turmeric leaf, lemon grass and chillies. Pepper at times has been a commodity grown in the Minang highlands, but to my knowledge isn't a key ingredient in their cooking. I looked up my collection of academic papers covering Minangkabau society, and I found one comment that in certain regions of West Sumatra in the present day, in addition to the spices listed above, cloves, cinnamon, nutmeg, coriander and white pepper are used in rendang. (Caniago (talk) 14:15, 29 January 2008 (UTC))

This doesn't fit the facts very well. Neither Chinese nor Indian influences would explain the use of a spice typical of Sumatra, one that they don't use themselves in any great quantity. So what did the recipes look like before the arrival of chilis? Groogle (talk) 08:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

So what are the facts? You have a recipe in the Malay language. You haven't stated if it is from Indonesia, Malaysia or somewhere else, and what period of time it is from. The Indian and Chinese influences are relevant to how rendang is prepared in Malaysia in the present day. As for what food in Sumatra, and specifically rendang, was like before the arrival of chillis I expect there is very little, if any, remaining evidence available. William Marsden circa 1780 mentions that Sumatrans prefer chillis to pepper in their cooking. He says that pepper is the chief produce and staple commodity of the island, but "never mixed by the natives in their food". Furthermore, "They esteem it heating to the blood, and ascribe a contrary effect to the cayenne". You seem to be assuming for some reason that because pepper was grown in Sumatra it was used as part of the local cuisine at some time. (Caniago (talk) 16:36, 1 February 2008 (UTC))

Citations

Several vague citations. I removed one duplicate pointing to a bibliography rather than the text itself. There are two online references to Hikayat Amir Hamzah which seem to be different versions of the same c16th text. They are in Malay which I do not know. Would be great to work out if both are needed, get specifics of where in the text to look exactly, and, in an ideal world, get an English language translation. (Online book format resists a rough approximation via translate.google.com.)

Try1else (talk) 08:45, 20 June 2013 (UTC)Try1else

• Checked, it is mentioned in the Hikayat Amir Hamzah. I've rearranged the words into "history" section, emphasizing on the early claims. Also removed the duplicates. English translation, not yet. How should I do that, as notes in the references?--Rochelimit (talk) 12:36, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

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Origin

There's a little argument going on about whether the origin of this dish is Malaysia or Indonesia. Three outcomes possible (it's not a problem to say "the origin of which is being debated between Malaysia and Indonesia") but what must not be done is to change anything without providing sources. If sources exist for both claims, then be it so (see above). Kind regards, Grueslayer 12:57, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

This is the most complete perspective with citations that I found about the Rendang topic, what is your opinion?

In Malay language, the word 'rendang' may carries several meanings; 1. to fry in general 2. to cook something with coconut oil until it dries out 3. to fry without oil 4. a specific dish made of different types of meat and cooked with spices and coconut milk until it dries out 5. 'rendang' with the 'e' pronounced as close-mid front unrounded vowel (/e/); 'exuberant' (for plants); example: 'plants with exuberant foliage'.⁽¹⁾

The history of rendang traces back to the era of 𝐌𝐞𝐥𝐚𝐤𝐚 𝐒𝐮𝐥𝐭𝐚𝐧𝐚𝐭𝐞 in the 15th century,⁽²⁾ when its capital was a regional centre of maritime spice trade, attracting traders from east and west. It was from this melting port of cultures, that the sophisticated Malay culinary tradition, including in meat processing techniques, were developed. Modern Rendang shows a fusion of Malay, Indian, and Portuguese culinary traditions, where it incorporates the use of coconut milk, dry spices, and chillies.⁽³⁾⁽⁴⁾

The method of cooking called 'rendang' (to fry) have been mentioned in several Classical Malay literary texts associated with Melaka Sultanate, particularly 𝑆𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑢𝑠 𝑆𝑎𝑙𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑛 (14th century). The first mention of the word 'rendang' as a specific dish can be found in the 𝐻𝑖𝑘𝑎𝑦𝑎𝑡 𝐴𝑚𝑖𝑟 𝐻𝑎𝑚𝑧𝑎ℎ (1500s) which recorded a certain 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑘𝑎𝑚𝑏𝑖𝑛𝑔 (goat meat rendang).⁽²⁾ In 𝐻𝑖𝑘𝑎𝑦𝑎𝑡 𝐻𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑇𝑢𝑎ℎ (1700s), the term 'rendang' was used as a catch-all phrase for meat dishes that are fried or stewed apart from curries (𝑔𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑖).⁽⁵⁾ A specific 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑟𝑒𝑚𝑖𝑠 (rendang made of a type of saltwater clams) is mentioned in Perak chronicle, 𝑀𝑖𝑠𝑎 𝑀𝑒𝑙𝑎𝑦𝑢 (1780s).⁽⁶⁾

In foreign records, the term 'rindang' appeared in the Dutch-Malay dictionary (1623) referring to a method of frying in clarified butter or oil,⁽⁷⁾ while in 1701, the term 'randang' was registered in the first ever English-Malay dictionary, meaning to 'to fry'.⁽⁸⁾ In A Dictionary of the Malay Language (1894), it is stated that a dry curry is termed 'rendang', while a wet curry is called 𝑔𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑖 by the Malays.⁽⁹⁾ Rendang is also defined as 'to fry with oil and spices'.⁽¹⁰⁾

Rendang is also recorded in the 𝑆𝑎𝑙𝑎𝑠𝑖𝑙𝑎ℎ 𝑀𝑒𝑙𝑎𝑦𝑢 𝑑𝑎𝑛 𝐵𝑢𝑔𝑖𝑠 (1865), where the Yang Di-Pertuan Muda of Johor served religious leaders 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑝𝑒𝑑𝑎𝑠 (spicy rendang) and 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑠𝑎𝑛𝑡𝑎𝑛 𝑎𝑦𝑎𝑚 (chicken rendang) following a religious ceremony in 1738.⁽¹¹⁾ In A Royal Malay Banquet Menu extracted from Perak and the Malays: "Sarong" and "Kris" (1878), the Maharajah of Johor hosted a banquet where a plethora of Malay dishes were presented including 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑐𝑖𝑛𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑔 (minced meat rendang) and 𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑑𝑎𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑒𝑛𝑔𝑖𝑟𝑖 (a type of fish rendang).⁽¹²⁾

Today, there are hundreds of rendang variants which vary depending on the region and ingredients, with new variations continue to be created. In 2009, Rendang was designated as one of Malaysia's national heritages by the Jabatan Warisan Negara (JWN).

Credit: Sandii Kama and Malay World

https://www.facebook.com/groups/796705698873524/permalink/830956125448481/

𝐑𝐞𝐟𝐞𝐫𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞𝐬

⁽¹⁾ Kamus Dewan - rendang

⁽²⁾ A Samad Ahmad, p. 10

⁽³⁾ Boileau JP (2011), p. 228

⁽⁴⁾ Jackson, Annabel (2020), p. 70

⁽⁵⁾ Kassim Ahmad (1975), p. 507

⁽⁶⁾ Raja Chulan bin Hamid (1962), p. 177

⁽⁷⁾ Wiltens, Caspar., Danckaerts, Sebastiaan., Heurnius, Justus., Ruyl, A. C.., Hasel, Jan van. (1650), p. 6

⁽⁸⁾ Bowrey, Thomas (1701), Section 9

⁽⁹⁾  Clifford, Hugh Charles., Swettenham, Frank Athelstane (1894), p. 504

⁽¹⁰⁾ Clifford, Hugh Charles., Swettenham, Frank Athelstane (1894), p. 499

⁽¹¹⁾ Raja Ali Haji (1984), p. 258

⁽¹²⁾ McNair, John Frederick Adolphus (1878), p.211

𝐁𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐢𝐨𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐩𝐡𝐲

Ahmad AS (1987), Hikayat Amir Hamzah [Amir Hamzah’s chronicle]. Kuala Lumpur: Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka, Kementerian Pelajaran Malaysia

Boileau JP. (2011), Portuguese in Asia. In: Albala K, editor. Food cultures of the world encyclopedia (3rd volume of four volume). Oxford: The Greenwood Press

Bowrey, Thomas (1701). A Dictionary, English and Malayo, Malayo and English. United Kingdom: Sam. Bridge, 1701. https://books.google.com.my/books/about/A_Dictionary_English_and_Malayo_Malayo_a.html?id=qpheAAAAcAAJ&redir_esc=y

Clifford, Hugh Charles., Swettenham, Frank Athelstane (1894), A Dictionary of the Malay Language. Malaysia: authors at the Government's printing Office

Jackson, Annabel (2020) The Making of Macau's Fusion Cuisine: From Family Table to World Stage. Hong Kong: Hong Kong University Press

Kassim Ahmad (ed.) (1975),  Hikayat Hang Tuah,  Kuala Lumpur: Dewan Bahasa dan Pustaka.

Kamus Dewan (4th edition) - Pusat Rujukan Persuratan Melayu. https://prpm.dbp.gov.my/Cari1?keyword=rendang&d=41812&#1

McNair, John Frederick Adolphus (1878) Perak and the Malays: "sārong" and "krīs.". United Kingdom: Tinsley Brothers.

Raja Ali Haji (1984) Salasilah Melayu dan Bugis,  ed. Mohd. Yusof Md. Nor,  Kuala Lumpur: Fajar Bakti

Raja Chulan bin Hamid (1962), Misa Melayu,  ed. R.O. Winstedt,  Kuala Lumpur: Pustaka Antara.

Wiltens, Caspar., Danckaerts, Sebastiaan., Heurnius, Justus., Ruyl, A. C.., Hasel, Jan van. (1650) Vocabularium, ofte Woorden-Boeck: nae ordre van den Alphabeth in't Duytsch en Maleys. Netherlands: ghedruckt door ordre van de E.E. heeren bewinthehebberen der Geoctroyeerde Oost-Indische Compagnie

Note: Some try to argue that Rendang in Hikayat Amir Hamzah is grilled or roasted goat meat, but this is invalid because in the manuscript roasted goat meat is called Kambing bakar. Audit2020 (talk) 14:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php/?story_fbid=1024932039025929&id=100045274280174

Infographic Audit2020 (talk) 14:42, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Rendang is originally made by Minangkabau people which are from Indonesia, but they went to Malaysia, Singapore, and other SEA country. But rendang is originally from Indonesia Mrasysyaani (talk) 02:46, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

"Crispy" Chicken Rendang

I understand there's been a bit of a controversy lately in Malaysia because a British reality-show cooking competition featured a judge criticizing a contestant's chicken rendang as not being "crispy" and thus eliminating the contestant from the competition (see this BBC story). Although this may be mostly a reaction to ignorance about Malaysian culture being displayed by media in another country, it may have something interesting to say about the significance of rendang to Malaysians- or it may just be chicken rendang's 15 minutes of fame and be forgotten next month. I thought I'd mention it here, anyway. Chuck Entz (talk) 18:47, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Bold items in list

I find the bold entries in "Variations" distracting. Wouldn't italics be better here? –Austronesier (talk) 19:31, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Is rendang is a stew?

I don't know what type of food is rendang? It is maybe a stew. 2001:448A:11A3:1039:892C:146:AE41:EA1D (talk) 13:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

It is, but not in the way that most places outside of Indonesia. In most Western stews, there is animal protein in a thick soup containing other vegetables, usually root veggies like carrots and potatoes.

In rendang, there is a sauce - not a soup - whose sole purpose is to be used to flavor the meet via slow-heated marination. It's considered more of a "dry" curry, which means the sauce is simmered down to a minimum. Because it is so distilled, the sauce sticks to the meat. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 17:50, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

What the hell? I know it is wrong. But anyway, don't remove rendang as a stew in the list. 2001:448A:11A3:1039:C13F:1A6A:78BB:F566 (talk) 06:45, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Typo

Hi, I'm a new editor, just want a typo fixed in line four. It should say, "Rendang is often described as a rich ... Dryadude (talk) 11:58, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done. @Dryadude: Thanks for pointing this out. –Austronesier (talk) 12:12, 21 August 2024 (UTC)