Talk:Religion in Poland

Religion in Poland

Why is it that all Christian faiths are not listed under one title - Christian? After all, Christianity is the accepted name of the religion and this article is supposed to list 'religions' in Poland. Catholic is but one branch of Christianity which consists of many divisions, including Roman and Anglican. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.2.129.132 (talk) 19:57, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

CIA Fact book shows:

Roman Catholic 89.8% (about 75% practicing)

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pl.html

--Krzyzowiec (talk) 01:36, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Then Poland joins Prussia

...missing.69.29.212.184 (talk) 06:29, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Religious denominations in Poland merge

There is no need to separate this into two articles. This article is not too long, honestly I cannot understand why it was separated in the first place. It just seems like common sense to have this information in this article. Ostap 06:10, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Support merge. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:17, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Good enough for me. Ostap 16:38, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Read the writing on the wall

Please do not, and I repeat, do not use the article by Boguszewski, Rafał (April 2012). "ZMIANY W ZAKRESIE WIARY I RELIGIJNOŚCI POLAKÓW PO ŚMIERCI JANA PAWŁA II" (PDF), CBOS; retrieved 31 July 2014, for drawing generalized conclusions about the Religion in Poland. Please read what the article says in its opening paragraph (quote):

"Jaki obraz polskiej wiary i religijności rysuje się u progu 2012 roku – w siedem lat po śmierci duchowego lidera, jakim dla znacznej części Polaków był Jan Paweł II? Sprawdziliśmy to w styczniowym sondażu, zrealizowanym we współpracy z Centrum Myśli Jana Pawła II." Translation: "What is the picture of Polish religiosity at the beginning of 2012 - seven years after the death of our spiritual leader, who was John Paul II for the vast majority of Poles? We found that out in our January survey conducted in conjunction with the Catholic John Paul II Centre for Thought."

This is not a reliable source for information about any religious community of Poland other than the Catholic Church, because data was compiled by an overtly Catholic think-tank. I you want to utilize this information, or any other information about what Catholics think about others, please go to Catholic Church in Poland. Do not use partisan sources in this article. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 00:16, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Addendum: The same rule applies to all similar polls conducted by CBOS in conjunction with the Catholic think-tank called the John Paul II Centre for Thought, including:

• CBOS opinion poll published by the society of Jesus in autumn 2008 (article by Maciej Lipiński)
• CBOS poll published May 2013 (article by Małgorzata Omyła-Rudzka)
• CBOS opinion poll from December 2013 (article by Mirosława Grabowska)
• CBOS 2014 poll (article by Małgorzata Omyła-Rudzka)
• CBOS poll published on April 2015 (article by Mirosława Grabowska)

None of the above sources can be considered reliable for our purposes. The Centre for Thought of John Paul II (according to its own website) is devoted entirely to the teaching of the Blessed Pope John Paul II, and follows the intellectual heritage of the Pope. Poeticbent talk 02:09, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

The polls poll all people, not just Catholics. Just because a Catholic think-tank pays someone to do an opinion poll, doesn't mean it is biased. The opinion polls were carried out by CBOS, the state pollster. I would like to point out something in the first quote you gave me. It says "Polish religiosity", not Polish Catholic religiosity, and even if it was, it would be a WP:RS if we had just stated that the results were of Catholic Poles. Because the Catholic Church is the majority religion in Poland, it will get much more attention in opinion polls than the other religions.

In the pie chart on the top of the page, you changed "census" to "survey of 91,2% of citizens". What is that about? It was a census, you can go check how many people took part in the census in the reference.

The mass attendance opinion poll includes people of all religions. The first table in the opinion poll asks people what religion they are, and the question about mass attendance is, in translation: "Do you take part in religious practice, such as: Mass, worship or religious meetings?" Therefore, it isn't Catholic-only. I want that back in the article.

The Gallup report from 2004 should go back into the article as per above.

All the theism polls should return into the article, as they are not Catholic-only surveys. On other articles, like Abortion in Poland#Public opinion, LGBT rights in Poland#Social attitudes and public opinion or LGBT rights in Europe#Public opinion around Europe, older opinion polls are included.

The ritual killing opinion poll should go back into the article because it surveys all Poles about whether the Islamic and Jewish way of killing animals should be allowed.

Same goes for the "religion in the public sphere" opinion poll. It, too, asks all Poles about whether they are offended or not by the religious symbols surrounding them. It should go back into the article.

The "possession of religious objects" table should go back into the article as per above.

The four questions about religion in public life ("Should a Cross hang in the Sejm?", "Should a Cross hang in school classrooms?", "Does it offend you that some people assuming public offices finish their oath with "So help me God"?" and "Could a Cross hung in a public place be interpreted as a violation of freedom of atheists?") should be added back into the article because, once again, they survey all Poles about the religius symbols, not just Polish Catholics.

But, I will agree that the Lenten and Easter observances survey belongs in Roman Catholicism in Poland, and I will move them there.

However, I will add the rest back into the article. – Sdino (talk) 12:36, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

User:Sdino is a confirmed sockpuppet of master User:Plarem. Both blocked by Checkuser, 25 July 2015, including the master. See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Plarem for details. Keep an eye out for possible rebirth.
— User:Poeticbent

• Thank you for sharing your personal opinions with us. Quote: "because a Catholic think-tank pays someone to do an opinion poll, doesn't mean it is biased." Well, it is! If you are paying for someone's services, you can dictate exactly what you want that person to do, because "he who pays the piper calls the tune". This quandary can only be resolved at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. I have already asked you to please read Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources because reinstating partisan sources in an neutral Wikipedia article about a general subject, is not acceptable, especially with an equally biased post in talk, per above. Poeticbent talk 15:45, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

@Sdino: For the purposes of this article (see WP:TITLE), the content you are pushing is WP:UNDUE. Please read other parallel "Religion in..." articles in order to familiarise yourself with the content presented. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:51, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Ok, so even still mass attendance should be included in the article, as per Religion in the Republic of Ireland. The Eurobarometer poll should go back into the article as per Religion in Denmark. Also, the pie chart at the top of the page is from the 2011 census, not a "survey of 91,2% of citizens". Page 99 of the 2011 census shows that 91.27% of the population did not give an answer to the religion question in the census. We do not need to state that in the title because the pie chart percentages state that 7.1% opted out of an answer to the religion question. Therefore, the phrase Poeticbent made up is redundant. – Sdino (talk) 13:57, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

@Poeticbent: Furthermore, on Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#He who pays the piper, you stated that I "restore biased expansion of the article Religion in Poland, including monster pie charts based on the society of Jesus publications and his ridiculous colour schemes." Are you certain Polish is your native language? Every pdf I referenced is from CBOS, that is "Centrum Badania Opinii Społecznej", or in English, the "Centre for Public Opinion Research". Where did you get the Society of Jesus out of? What is ridiculous about the colour scheme I chose? Green for yes, red for no and yellow in between. It is common sense that green is associated with a positive answer and red is associated with a negative answer. "When red and green combine, the result is yellow." (Colour mixing) Therefore, using common sense, yellow is associated with something in between yes and no. You later stated that, with regard to the opinion poll results: "many with deeply controversial answers to questionnaires about other religions and their practices such as the ritual slaughter of animals for consumption." Well, I can't help that the results of the opinion poll aren't the ones you want to see. If you would have bothered your back side to actually check the references before reverting everything, you would have found that only one opinion poll was funded by the St. John Paul II Centre for Thought. I will leave a list of the pdfs from CBOS that I originally used in the article: [1] Ritual killing Public sphere religion 2013 2015 Religious practice Here are the references that you removed, because I can be certain that you won't bother your back side looking for them: 94% Polaków wierzy w Boga, taken from: CBOS Eurobarometer 2010, commissioned by the European Commission.

The only reference funded by the Catholic think-tank, which should be included in the article with this note: "by the Centre for Public Opinion Research (CBOS) in conjunction with the Catholic think-tank Centrum Myśli Jana Pawła II (John Paul II Centre for Thought)" is: [2] I will add them back and I want you to have a look at this before reverting the edits. – Sdino (talk) 14:31, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

• Please stop immediately with your wp:personal attacks and WP:POV pushing. If not, you will be reported, and duly sanctioned. The Centre for Public Opinion Research (CBOS) polls paid for by Catholic Centrum Myśli Jana Pawła II and digitized by www.ekumenizm.pl society of Jesus have no place in Wikipedia. Poeticbent talk 18:35, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

@Sdino: verifiability does not guarantee inclusion of content into wikipedia. "Consensus may determine that certain information does not improve an article, and that it should be omitted or presented instead in a different article. The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content." (WP:ONUS) You flooded the article with opinion polls and you were reverted. I don´t see a consensus for these additions - please stop reverting. Thank you JimRenge (talk) 21:11, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

As an addendum, I've also checked these sources and looked into the think tank responsible for them. It's WP:FRINGE. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:47, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Rv: I think one poll (text, no pie chart) about the belief in god should be sufficient in this article. JimRenge (talk) 18:12, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Agreed that the WP:KISS principle is content appropriate for this article. Mind you, I'm still unconvinced that the "Theism poll by CBOS" is DUE for this particular article. It's really content for the "Catholicism in Poland" article, and even there in a low dose format. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:35, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

I think the poll is reliable (endorsed by CBOS), but I am fine with it being discussed in a dedicated section rather than used as a basis for lead (census is even more reliable). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:29, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

• I'm sorry to say that User:Piotrus, but what you just wrote is complete bullshit. I'm sure you do know the meaning of the word "endorsed". The cheque for the poll was "endorsed", yes ... but not by CBOS. The cheque was "cashed" by CBOS a.k.a. the miracle maker for hire. Whomever "endorsed" the cheque is a different story. Poeticbent talk 01:58, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

But I don't think you get that what is written there at the moment is wrong. The article talks about the 2015 opinion poll. It was not paid for by the Catholic think-tank. Furthermore, WP:KISS seems to apply to Wikipedia rules and procedures, and 2 opinion polls do not make the article look cluttered. – Sdino (talk) 12:55, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

The WP:TITLE of the article is "Religion in Poland", not "Catholicism in Poland". Whether or not Catholicism is the predominant religion in Poland is irrelevant: the function of the article is not that of in-depth analysis of different flavours of Catholicism, but that of an overall view, and that means not using one identified WP:BIASED source to sway the direction. Please read WP:BALASPS. Definitely not for the lead... and I'm still unconvinced that it is appropriate in the body of the article. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:12, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Referencing a previous study in the form of „Zmiany w zakresie podstawowych wskaźników religijności Polaków po śmierci Jana Pawła II” in the 'research' makes me jittery. Being put together by a young, unknown quantity (Rafał Boguszewski) makes me think 'hired gun'. CBOS's integrity is questionable at best. Being unable to find information as to who actually commissioned this 'poll', or any reasonable information as to the methodology used takes me right back to FRINGE. Unless someone can direct me to something substantive and informative about the process/who commissioned the poll (and who signed the cheque), I'm with Poeticbent on quashing the study. The only fact that is verifiable is that CBOS exists: what their (how did they establish this?) findings are may as well be OR. Using any independent polls is a last resort only reasonable for areas where the official census is desperately out of date. Are we there yet? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:06, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure why the edits I made have been reverted? None of them affect discussion on whether or not to include pie-charts. I'm prepared to be collaborative and won't put them back in immediately. But the amendments I made seem to be reasonable and non-controversial. Contaldo80 (talk) 10:17, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

@Contaldo80: You shouldn't even bother with these editors. They think they own the article, and will revert your edits, not taking your reasons for inclusion into account... – Sdino (talk) 10:57, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

@Contaldo80: I've self-reverted in order that your content isn't lost. All changes should be discussed on their own merits. Sdino, I'd suggest that you desist with your WP:Personal attacks on editors. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:08, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Religion in Poland

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Religion in Poland's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Lukas":

• From History of Poland (1939–45): Richard C. Lukas, Out of the Inferno: Poles Remember the Holocaust University Press of Kentucky 1989 - 201 pages. Page 13; also in Richard C. Lukas, The Forgotten Holocaust: The Poles Under German Occupation, 1939-1944, University Press of Kentucky 1986 - 300 pages
• From Poland: Richard C. Lukas, Out of the Inferno: Poles Remember the Holocaust, University Press of Kentucky 1989 – 201 pages. Page 13; also in Richard C. Lukas, The Forgotten Holocaust: The Poles Under German Occupation, 1939–1944, University Press of Kentucky, 1986, Google Print, p.13.
• From History of the Jews in Poland: Richard C. Lukas, Out of the Inferno: Poles Remember the Holocaust University Press of Kentucky 1989 – 201 pages. Page 13; also in Richard C. Lukas, The Forgotten Holocaust: The Poles Under German Occupation, 1939–1944, University Press of Kentucky 1986 – 300 pages.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 14:34, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• St Florians.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:52, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Communism in Poland

I find it curious that the subject is not mentioned, since the Catholic union "Solidarność" was one of the most opposed to the communist regime. Not forgetting the historic visit of Pope John Paul II, which rekindled religious feelings in the country and of which there is no mention whatsoever.

I think a very very short summary is made for this article Armando AZ (talk) 20:03, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

In fact, this article does mention this: http://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Catholic_Church_in_Poland#History Armando AZ (talk) 20:07, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

wording

" The rest of the population consists mainly of Eastern Orthodox (Polish Orthodox Church – approximately 507,196 believers), various Protestant churches (the largest of which is the Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in Poland, with 61,217 members"

there seems to be a difference in wording between an orthodox and protestant denomination: believers vs members. Is there a reason for this? Plumeater2 (talk) 18:17, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Poland

Poland is the smallest country ever and is least popular 165.228.205.238 (talk) 03:43, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 November 2023

Please may I edit the article about religion in Poland . This is because the statistics are false and need to be changed immediately . In Poland 98.5% of people identify as Christian 97.7% Catholic . source: What's the highest religion in Poland (wikipedia). Maks12345678910 (talk) 20:07, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 20:16, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

For some reason, this idiot wants to keep the over 97% of Poles are catholic bullshit, even though the latest polls confirmed that it's now 71.3%. Gość232 (talk) 12:10, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

edit request: delete governing in front of Law and Justice in lead

• Delete governing in front of Law and Justice in last sentence of 2nd paragraph in lead.:
• Law and Justice isn't in the current Polish government.:
• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

2A02:1810:BC3A:D800:D549:3969:45F7:4A4 (talk) 13:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

References

 Done Justarandomamerican (talk) Have a good day! 16:01, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 October 2024

The figures for '% Christian' and '% Roman Catholic' have been mixed up, resulting in inconsistency within the article.

In the fourth paragraph of the first section, change:

   Roman Catholicism, whose followers comprise 72.4%

to

   Roman Catholicism, whose followers comprise 71.3%

The latter number matches the table provided within the article. Premium-content (talk) 08:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Done Rainsage (talk) 06:05, 10 October 2024 (UTC)