Talk:Religion in Kenya

Out of place sentences at end of /* Islam */ section

The end of /* Islam */ section currently has:

"The religions subsiding in Kenya do not display the distinctions between the 42 cultures. They mainly display the traditions of the larger "umbrella" cultures."

which doesn't seem specifically relevant to Islam. Such a claim probably needs a specific citation too. And it is a bit hard to make sense of these two sentences anyway. I would just delete them. Em3rgent0rdr (talk) 17:03, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

I've removed as unsourced and somewhat incomprehensible. Erp (talk) 05:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Top pie chart

In regards to the top pie chart on page we are currently using the 2019 census data which seems justifiable. I think we should keep the divisions and names that the census uses though combining very small groups which otherwise wouldn't be visible (i.e., Other Christian merges in the small numbers [.43%] of Orthodox Christian and Other Religion merges in Hindu [.13%] and Traditionalist [.68%]). Does this seem reasonable?

I also note that the census does have "African instituted churches" which seems to be a very broad group. It would probably be useful for the page as a whole to give more detail especially since the linked article currently doesn't even mention Kenya and the government attitude towards them. Erp (talk) 15:51, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes, combining very small groups does seem reasonable. JimRenge (talk) 19:16, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

Yes I agree too, the source isn't detailed enough and some definitions are very broad, that's why I think they should all been grouped under Christianity in the pie chart for simplicity. The Kenya government will release its next census 4 years from now so perhaps we should expect better details from them that we can use, in the meantime kindly let's just group the various Christian denominations under Christianity. 197.237.82.109 (talk) 09:33, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Well given the cumulative is mentioned in the lead we don't need the pie chart with exactly the same details so perhaps drop the pie chart? Also you keeping reverting the more complete reference. Erp (talk) 12:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Before you get involved in an edit war (or me for that matter), let's discuss this on the talk page. You stated in your first edit "Aligned chart with standard wikipedia charts on most wikipedia pages about religion. Christian denominations are usually grouped into one Christian category" which is flat out wrong; they usually use Christianity alone if the sources use that alone or the total percentage is so small they have to be lumped together to be visible. You state in your last revert "Instead of having 5 categories of Christianity crammed up in one pie chart, wouldn't it be easier to just include them all under one category of Christianity and make the chart more appealing ?? It's an easier option than taking down the informative tables or the pie chart.)". Pie charts should convey useful information so having the the 5 Christian groupings being adjacent to each other and in shades of blue conveys how Christianity is the major tradition in Kenya as well as the diversity of Christianity in Kenya. At a minimum being "Roman Catholic" is fairly distinct from the other Christianities in Kenya and being old type Protestant denominations (as in the Anglican, Methodist, Quakers) which the term 'Protestant' seems to be used for in the census is different in many ways from the newer 'Evangelical' Christian churches or the African-instituted churches springing up. Erp (talk) 23:20, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

There are other reasons too why the source is neither reliable nor useful in terms of providing info on denominations,Example:some of the African instituted churches consider themselves as protestant since they are offshoots of old type protestantism while others don't, yet they are classified together in the source. The source also fails to classify Independent churches which are many in Kenya, and what do they even mean by the category "other Christian", it's all vague. All these glaring issues renders the source inadequate in providing any reliable information on the diverse denominations, the only clear information we can get from the source is that about 85% of Kenyans are Christians which is what the pie chart was reflecting before it got edited.I would even say that the tables in the article provide more accurate data about the denominations since they use more than one source and go deeper in classifying the various sects,anyone interested in that info can find the tables,the 5 categories in the pie chart are unnecessary from an informative perspective since the source isn't even reliable to begin with. 197.237.82.109 (talk) 05:34, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

If the source is unreliable, we don't use it; however, censuses are usually considered reliable unless we have a good third party source that says otherwise. Do you have one? I strongly suspect that most independent non-African initiated churches would be classified as 'Evangelical'. Other Christian probably includes Jehovah's Witnesses and the Latter Day Saints. Erp (talk) 06:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

@JimRenge (and others) what are your thoughts on keeping the 5 part division of Christianity in the pie chart? The government seems to have a fairly clear idea of what is in each. Theoretically one could combine Evangelical and Protestant churches though I think that obscures the distinction. I don't think we can combine those two with African Instituted Churches since some of the latter may be different enough to be closer to some of the churches the government defines as "Other Christian". Admitted it would be useful to know how the government classifies each group (Catholic is in the only obvious one).

Also I think like should go with like so all the Christian categories should be adjacent (ordering by numbers is more appropriate for bar charts). Erp (talk) 21:27, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

The 2019 census appears to be the most reliable source available. I think the pie chart should represent the census data ([1], p. 422) with as much detail as possible. That's why I'm in favor of keeping the 5 part division of Christianity in the pie chart. Ordering the Christian categories adjacent looks good. Thanks. JimRenge (talk) 21:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)