Talk:Penn State Nittany Lions football under Joe Paterno

Vacated Wins vs. Forfeits

Do we really need to go back through each line and change the final score line to "forfeit" or can we make a footnote with citation stating that all wins from 1998-2011 were vacated due to the 7/23/12 NCAA sanction? 173.86.66.61 (talk) 14:46, 23 July 2012 (UTC) [now that I've logged in.....] Bob305 (talk) 14:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I think that we have to (since they are no longer wins), we should also change the "Last Penn State Win" at the top to reflect the forefits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.19.20 (talk) 19:06, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Vacated wins are explicitly different than forfeits; forfeits result in a change in the other team's record (that is, if a game is forfeit after the fact as the result of action by the NCAA Committee on Infractions, the result flips. In the case of a vacated win, the opposing team's record isn't affected; the game simply has no winner and wins (and ties) are removed from the penalized team's record (both for the season and all time). It wouldn't be correct to say that Kentucky won the 1999 Outback Bowl. That game simply was no winner. Noting that wins affected by the sanction are vacated is appropriate, but changing them to a "loss" isn't accurate ("forfeit" is questionable, "vacant" or "vacated" would be more accurate). That the last Penn State win occured in 1997 is accurate, though, so it might be a good idea to update that table.Murphyr (talk) 21:15, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

This sounds reasonable and I've seen that somebody has started the work. I just didn't want somebody vandalizing the site in haste; just an accurate reporting of "this was the score on the field" on a given date, but now it is vacated. Thanks for the clarity on the opponents' records. Bob305 (talk) 22:07, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I just changed the "Last Penn State Win" section above to reflect the Vacated Wins, I should mention that I did most of the subtracting in my head (while glossing over each years records) while doing the percentage calculations on a calculator if anyone wishes to double-check it for accuracy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.19.20 (talk) 03:25, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

VACATED GAMES ARE NOT FORFEITS

The losing school in vacated games recognizes the loss. As such, Penn State would be listed as (for example) 0-5 in conference play rather than 0-8, if they won 3 games on the field and then vacated them. Six Sided Pun Vows (talk | contribs | former account) 17:05, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't believe so becuase for the loosing team I believe that it is no longer considered a loss, although I could be wrong, I know that it is not considered a win for them though. Basically the win/loss is taken away fot both teams but the games still happened and all of the stats that happened in those games still count. I also know that Joe Paterno IS still in a tie with Alonzo Stagg for most games coached since he was still considered the coach for those vacated wins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.19.20 (talk) 22:29, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Reinstating of wins pretty much finished

It looks like I have pretty much finished re-instating the wins for Joe Paterno (I was responsible for re-instating the years from 2002 to 2011). Thanks for letting me re-instate most of the wins, as a Penn State Grad I sort of felt it was my duty to do so :). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:B:9F01:7B70:F0E0:17F5:7C04:F085 (talk) 20:44, 16 January 2015 (UTC)