Talk:Palatschinke

Redirect

Is it necessary for palacsinta (Hungarian) to redirect here? The German's don't know "Palatschinke", only the guys from Austria!!

Austrian German is “Palatschinken” (not Palatschinke), German would be “Pfannkuchen”. --85.180.233.163 21:25, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

An Austrian Palatschinke (or Hungarian palacsinta, French crêpe, you get the idea) is usually thinner than a German pancake.

"Palatschinken" is plural. In Austrian German, the singular would be "Palatschinke" (pronunciation approx. [pala'tʃinkə]), derived from Hungarian "palacsinta." It certainly doesn't have anything to do with the German word "Schinken." In the interest of consistency, I think that this article should be renamed to "Palatschinke." (an Austrian) 85.127.110.159 (talk) 15:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I moved it to "Palatschinke" as this is clearly the singular form. Alexander ktn (talk) 19:21, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

"Palatschinke" is definitely wrong, as in German no singular form of the word "Palatschinken" exists (in fact the term is not plural at all since not everything that ends with "-en" is automatically plural). However, it is true that in Germany the term "Palatschinken" normally is not used and can only be found in the menu of classy restaurants or in Austrian German. Instead, we use the term "Pfannkuchen".

I agree. This is just stange. Look at this statment from the main aricle PANKAKE

In Austria pancakes are called Palatschinken, a word derived from Latin placenta by way of Romanian, and are usually filled with ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.254.146.163 (talk) 18:03, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

In German/Austrian, it came from Hungarian/West Slavic. In Hungarian/West Slavic the word came from Romanian, where it developed from Latin. The transformation of pla- into pala- happened when it went from Romanian to Hungarian or West Slavic. See also Lake Balaton, another example of Hungarian stretching out a word in a similar way (balaton is from Slavic blato-). I have sources including DEX. A is putting the smack down (talk) 14:38, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Would it be better for the main article to be called Palacsinta, and have Palatschinke and Palatschinken redirect to it? Palacsinta seems to be more common in English than Palatschinke? Emika22 (talk) 19:52, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

It's definitely worth consideration - it would however take some effort to adapt the article to reflect that change. Moving it from Palatschinken to Palatschinke was not much work ;-) It could also be called "Central and Eastern European pancake" and have all local designations point toward it Alexander ktn (talk) 20:07, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

As said, the term "Palatschinke" does not exist in German language. I recommend to rename the article to "Palatschinken".

Crêpe?

Why does this exist separately from crêpe? --Joy [shallot] 21:42, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Damn bro, this comment us older than me, are you still alive and around here? 2A02:3038:600:16DE:4D6E:D8D1:EF07:285 (talk) 02:04, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

It has a distinctly different taste and is served differently as well. You should try one, then have a crepe and the difference will be immediate and clear.

No Way

The mighty “Palatschinken” should have its own page. It is different to Crepes and a true Austrian will know the difference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.104.53.180 (talk) 12:24, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, Palacsinta are a distinct dish completely different than crepes,and therefore should be kept separate from them —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.39.28.101 (talk) 18:24, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Palatschinken could be considered a type of crêpe, but it definitely is a distinct dish in its own right. Crêpe Suzette would be a better candidate for merging into the crêpe article than Palatschinken, but really neither should be. Klausness (talk) 18:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Palatschinken are very different to crepes, in taste, texture and how they are served. The articles should stay seperate and NOT be merged. They are also, in fact, quite different to the german Pfannkuchen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.129.196.27 (talk) 23:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Besides pancakes are known in the Central Europe (or at least here in Czechi), we call them lívance. Only, they have oatmeal inside, so they are more fluffy.

Ceplm (talk) 19:54, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

Etymology

The word is derived from the Latin placenta and not from the romanian whatewer.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.254.146.163 (talk) 17:23, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

No [expletive deleted], it's from Hungarian, then from Romanian, then from Latin. This is seen in the way the word changed forms. A is putting the smack down (talk) 14:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Behave yourself, will you.

The German word maybe has its origin in the Latin word or not. Uncertain. And the Romanian word as far as I checked is clătită. Unless you can provide reliable sources so leave the informantion like it is now.

and no insults please.

Warrington (talk) 14:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, you sound calm. My insult was addressed to the anonymous contributor because of his phrasing. Here is the etymology of the Romanian word and it also explicitly states that the Hungarian, German, etc. forms are from Romanian [1]. The source is the DEX a very conservative etymological dictionary, in other words it will not make a wild claim about an etymology. Also the Wiktionary entry says the same thing, although the editor there did not place his source. I know from my knowledge of Hungarian, Romanian, and German that 1) the word is not directly from Latin to German; 2) it is from Latin to Romanian to Hungarian to German. I will get more sources to show this. I don't know if you know about linguistics, but "placenta" would not have become "Palatschinken" in German. It doesn't follow German to Latin sound changes. A is putting the smack down (talk) 15:02, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry but I can not read your sources. You have to find something in English.

Warrington (talk) 15:09, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

So what if you can't, you're not in control of the article. plenty of editors can read it. I don't want to insult you, but you don't know anything about linguistics. The burden is on you. What German etymological dictionary derives the German word directly from Latin? A is putting the smack down (talk) 15:11, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The person in Wiktionary was German or something and he placed the same etymology that my source has [2]. A is putting the smack down (talk) 15:15, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

By the way, you have reverted even other changes I made in the article, 3 times. You mede a mess of the article. You turned everything upside-down, no begining, no nothing. Total confusion.

Warrington (talk) 15:42, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Well don't rudely revert my changes like that and I won't revert yours like that. Bring a single source that traces this German term to Latin without intermediaries and I will say you are editing with caution. Otherwise you're editing like a person with no linguistic familiarity. Editing like someone who reads cookbooks, but not etymological dictionaries. A is putting the smack down (talk) 15:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

No insults, please. You don't know me.

Warrington (talk) 15:59, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I just got back. The article was not arranged well when I found it, the etymology was discussed first when the food/pancake itself should probably be discussed first. Whichever way it works better. The etymology is pretty clear even from looking at the word: German--->Slavic--->Hungarian--->Romanian--->Latin. The "-inka" from Slavic became "-inke" in German. The Slavs adapted the "-inka" from Hungarian "-inta", which the Hungarians got from Romanian, and Romanian from Latin. The Hungarians are the ones who changed pla- to pala-, as in the case of Lake Balaton, the Hungarians changed bla- to bala-. Anyway, if you find a source arguing that the German word is directly from Latin, present the source. There are some Latin words that entered German a long time ago, like vocatus which became Voget in German, etc. But Palatschinken looks so obviously taken from Slavic<Hungarian<Romanian, and that is what the sources indeed say. A is putting the smack down (talk) 21:31, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

When you use the English Wikipedia you need to provide English references. But the Wiktionary will do

Warrington (talk) 21:45, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I am interested in finding more sources. I want the information to be correct. There is nothing wrong with cookbooks by the way I like them myself, but I spend more time reading etymological dictionaries. A is putting the smack down (talk) 15:29, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

The information is Ok. I checked the etymology myself. And I don't read cookbooks day and night. It just happens to be that a huge amount of articles on the Wikipedia International Cuisines need cleanup. Many of them are incoherent and are pretty scattered (sorry guys), so I got engaged in the cleanup. It is a pity, because it is an interesting topic. Belive it or not, I do have many other interest in life, International cooking is something new.

Warrington (talk) 16:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Just to correct this: No, non-English references are perfectly fine. English Wiktionary is not. A reputable Romanian dictionary is a hundred times better than a wiki page. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:14, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

An other administrator told me exactly the opposite, meaning that sources have to be verifiable, and verifiability means in English. Otherwise anyone can claim that they are using reliable sources, in weird languages that only a few people can read and understand. But ok, than I will use a German reference, at last German is a well known language providing generally reliable resurces. Warrington (talk) 11:57, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

The other admin was mistaken. Verifiable means that a source can be checked. It doesn't mean checking must be effortless for everybody. A foreign-language source can be checked by using a dictionary, asking a friend for a translation, or any number of other means. It is true that English sources are preferred, as a matter of convenience for our readers, and editors should make reasonable efforts at finding English ones if possible, but in the absence of a good English source for the same thing, the fact that a source is not in English is never a reason to reject a plausible factual claim cited to it. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:07, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I understand how you are thinking here, but there are certain concerns about this, like I do not have a Romanian dictionary (though a dictionary is often not enough to really understand a text), or friends whom I can ask to check that for me. And I doubt that many people have (unlike German, Spanish, Italian or French). That is why I was using the Wiktionary. Unfortunately, this whole discussion started out in the wrong way, (insults and misunderstandings – the article claims that Romanian for pancake is clatita not placina). Anyway, this user since than has been blocked indefinitely for incivility and other unreliabilities (confusing name changes, socks, page moves and deletions, see Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts). All this vas a rather unfortunate episode.

Warrington (talk) 12:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

As I said, checking doesn't need to be effortless. In the worst case, there are lots of Romanian users around who you could ask if it was really crucial. But anyway, I agree this whole episode went off to a bad start and shouldn't have escalated like this.

About the editor, we are probably going to get him unblocked soon, there's a background to the story that the blocking admin wasn't fully aware of. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:31, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Maybe all this etymology information would be better of at the Wiktionary.

Warrington (talk) 15:04, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

No dude, we go into etymology in food & drink articles. See falafel etc. Do you indeed have some unspoken problem? A from L.A. (talk) 15:07, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

What does belong in Wiktionary are all those translations for "pilaf" in the Pilaf article. A from L.A. (talk) 15:14, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Warrinton

Mr. Warrington... I find your assumption "weird languages that only a few people can read and understand." about Romanian language quite an insult. Romanian is spoken by millions of humans. Obviously you are not one of them. You also insulted many more who speak Latin derived sister languages and can understand Romanian.

Wow... What can I say... In a short sentence, you managed to classify all Romance languages as "weird languages that only a few people can read and understand." Thank you very much.

By the way, you irredentist romanian-hating hungarian... Boldog Karácsonyt! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fillosaurus (talk • contribs) 16:20, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Verify source

http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=palatschinke.png -- the entry from Kluge bogdan (talk) 09:48, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. Squash Racket (talk) 10:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

First two languages switched? "Pannkook" doesn't sound Austrian at all.

It sounds somewhat similiar to the german "Pfannkuchen", but that would be more Germany-german, than Austria-german. I'd switch the languages, but I don't remember my password, and I'd rather not edit a main page with just an IP as user...194.112.128.196 (talk) 08:30, 19 January 2017 (UTC)

Etymology 2

The word (as per wiktionary and dexonline) is from Romanian (ultimately from Latin/Greek). In a nutshell, It cannot be from Italian because:

*Italian did not inherit the word but borrowed it later on from Latin and it refers to an organ, not the food.

*The form of the word shows it developed from Latin (regular sound changes such as e becoming i ).

*/pl/ yielded /pj/ in Italian (should then be piacenta) but remained /pl/ in Romanian. Aristeus01 (talk) 06:49, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

@Aristeus01 has right, it came from Romanian to Hungarian according to Hungarian etimology lexicon https://dtk.tankonyvtar.hu/bitstream/handle/123456789/8879/Etimologiai_szotar.pdf OrionNimrod (talk) 13:10, 18 July 2024 (UTC)