Talk:Nicolaus Copernicus

1497:Canon of Frauenburg

The current WP article refers of his son Andreas in the role of Augustianin canon of the Cathedral of Frauenburg. But the same charge took to Nicolaus, in 1497, when he was in Italy yet (source: Holmes Charles Nevers, Popular Astronomy, Vol. 24, p. 219, in SAO/NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)).

The same information is also provided by Smith, David Eugene (July 1, 1917). "Medicine and Mathematics in the Sixteenth Century" (PDF). Ann Med Hist. 1 (2): 125–140. OCLC 12650954. PMC 7927718. PMID 33943138. Archived (PDF) from the original on May 15, 2021. Retrieved July 15, 2021. (here cited p. 129). This book dates back to 1917 and is also an alternative source about the Copernicus' masters of mathematics and astronomy: Peuerbach, Regiomontanus, Domenico Maria, and Brudzewski. All of them are actually sourced by a unique monography (Dobrzycki and Hajdukiewicz (1969)). Regards, Theologian81sp

A monumental scandal

An enormous bulk of evidence about Copernicus having been ethnically German and of Polonising German topography has been "archived". The present article carefully avoids the terms German or Polish for the ethnicity of the man because the evidence is clear that he was German - with a German father and a German mother, who will have taught him the German and not the Polish language. And the article Polonises all place names in Prussia that got Polish names only in the 20th century, but misses out on Danzig. - A monumental scandal and a disgusting disgrace. 2001:9E8:25F:FD00:E9AB:E4CF:D944:B901 (talk) 23:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

True, but both sides have valid arguments, it's best to leave nationality out of this Crainsaw (talk) 19:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

No they don't it's not even a discussion. He was quite obviously ethnically German but wikipedia is leftist political propaganda at it's finest. This site truly has become a disgrace. 178.24.247.43 (talk) 11:47, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

I would say Wikipedia is Western-centered and racist towards Eastern and Central Europeans with figures such as Copernicus or Sklodowska-Curie being Westernized in articles (which itself on the main webpage with news and trivia mentions in 90% only West-related things and takes Western perspective. Ergo, it's not international but English/West-centered.

Now not mentioning Copernicus nationality because it's not relevant is fairly silly concerning the fact that somehow other figures of that time like let's say Durer or Caravaggio magically have some nationality. 45.93.75.81 (talk) 20:58, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

The current article represents a hard-earned consensus, after monumental disruption by editors who aggressively espoused competing assertions of nationality. Please don't start that again. Acroterion (talk) 19:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

We have been through this. Several times. There are definitive arguments for Copernicus being a loyal subject of the Polish crown in territory ultimately subject to the Polish king - which is a good definition of being Polish. There is the definitive argument of Copernicus subscribing to the German Natio in Bologna and his suriving works in German (and Latin). The rest is more or less speculation (some more, some less). We DO know that this debate runs over centuries now, and finding a consensus here took a decade or two. Just accept him to be in the heritage of both nations, at best a connecting rather then a dividing aspect of history. ASchudak (talk) 06:48, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

He was Half-Polish by birth, German in name, but he lived in Poland, it half because Lived in Poland+Half polsh= Half Polish, and German in name+Half German=Half German Crainsaw (talk) 09:09, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

NO. What's that even supposed to mean? By birth? He was born in a German family in a German build, German inhabited city. You people are insane. 178.24.247.43 (talk) 11:49, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

It is likely his father was a Germanized Pole, he also spent years in Polish cities and universities, such as Jagiellonian University in Krakow. Crainsaw (talk) 11:54, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

The definition of leftist isn't anything you happen to disagree with. In fact, the view of Copernicus as Polish is popular with the Right in Eastern Europe. TFD (talk) 12:02, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

This is nonsense. His father Mikołaj Kopernik, after whom Copernicus got his name and surname, was a Pole from Kraków, his mother Barbara Watzenrode was a German from Toruń. Copernicus himself was born in Polish Prussia, spent his childhood there, then graduated from the Kraków Academy and later several other European universities, then returned to Poland and actively fought against the germanization of Prussia by the German Teutonic Order. He took part in the Polish-Teutonic War of 1519–1521 on the side of Poland. You can't make a full German out of him, no matter how much you want to, don't rewrite history. Utryss (talk) 16:50, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

>"This is nonsense."

Is it necessary to start your contribution this way? You could simply present your source. Especially when...

>"His father Mikołaj Kopernik, after whom Copernicus got his name and surname, was a Pole from Kraków"

... makes these sources obligatory. The problem is that there is no primary source that can confirm this, just speculation from various scholars, who often have their bias - unless I am mistaken and new evidence was unveiled. Coming from Krakow is no proof of cultural heritage with around 20% Germans there at that time.

There is not much that we DO know for sure, and I already listed it. It is insufficient to decide one way or the other, and Wikipedia can but record it this way.

Both Poland and Germany had multicultural states on their territory back around 1500, with cultural Poles living in Germany and cultural Germans in Poland - a status that creates many people in between and that continues one way or the other since today. If anything, Copernicus ambiguity in that regard embodies this bond. ASchudak (talk) 12:02, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Neitzer Germany nor Poland had ever multicultural states on their territories. 2001:9E8:25E:FB00:B8D2:A8A4:86D7:776 (talk) 09:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

The HRE, the Empire, covered Frisians, French, Italian, Danish and many Slavian areas. There were also many German areas outside of it.

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth included, beside Germans and Hungarians, a multitude of Slavic cultures from the Baltics through Ruthenia to the Black Sea. ASchudak (talk) 06:05, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

The Polonising of the names of German cities and regions that became occupied by Poles only in the 20th century is infantile, mad and disgusting. 2001:9E8:25E:FB00:B8D2:A8A4:86D7:776 (talk) 09:21, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

And this is not a forum for nationalist complaints. Acroterion (talk) 12:29, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

If in doubt, use the regulations of the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. See the intro of this article. ASchudak (talk) 06:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Silesian roots

"His father was a merchant from Kraków (Krakau) and his mother was the daughter of a wealthy Toruń merchant.[13" But: the father´s side of Upper Silesian and the mother´s side od Lower Silesian origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:9E8:20D2:E100:4CD2:347F:8EFC:1838 (talk) 20:11, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
Why (Krakau)?Sunday Hippie (talk) 23:45, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2024

In the "Commemoration" section of the article, in the subsection titled "Poland", in the second paragraph change the "[...] in Poland's third largest city, Łódź." to "[...] in Poland's fourth largest city, Łódź."

In the article the city of Łódź is called Poland's third largest city. In the data provided in the Polish Wikipedia (data from 20th July 2023), the population of Łódź city has dropped and currently city of Wrocław has surpassed Łódź in the number of population. BlueBlack22 (talk) 10:59, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

 Done This is also verified and cited on the Łódź page. Jamedeus (talk) 18:58, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2024

in the Work section, "till" is used in "(or perhaps till his uncle's death on 29 March 1512)" and i believe this should be changed to until Maddybac (talk) 16:46, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done M.Bitton (talk) 17:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Extended-protected status?

I propose that this article be given extended-protected status. It is experiencing an onslaught of neo-nazis. Meellk (talk) 17:44, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Successors

The article's "Successors" section states that "Scholars hold that sixty years after the publication of The Revolutions there were only around 15 astronomers espousing Copernicanism in all of Europe..."

That implies that all the 15 listed would have survived to the year 1603.

At least two of them died before then: Tiedemann Giese (1550) and Rheticus (1574).

Nihil novi (talk) 04:24, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Nationality

Should we assume Copernicus' nationality can be Polish? Absolutiva (talk) 23:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Do you have NEW evidence that goes beyond those that have been debated here for a decade or two?

If not, leave it as it is.

See my above comment that starts with "We have been through this". ASchudak (talk) 22:40, 12 December 2024 (UTC)