Talk:Ngau Tau Kok

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Modotcom (21/4/06) wrote that:

I would like to point out that Ping Shek Est and Shun Lee Est are belonged to Kwun Tong District. Also, area in Shun Lee Estate is also namely Jordon Valley, but not Ngau Chi Wan. Ngau Chi Wan should be referred to the place such as Choi Wan and Ngau Chi Wan Village also Ngau Chi Wan is in Wong Tai Sin District.

Ngau Tau Kok

(in the dicussion of User talk:Modotcom#Ngau Tau Kok) I assume you know the division of election boundary is largerly based on the geographic distribution of population. It is often against common sense to a place. For example, part of Tsing Yi South division is on the reclamation of Stonecutter's Island, solely for administrative division. It is hard to tell why the north of Clear Water Bay Road is Wong Tai Sin District while south is Kwun Tong District except administrative one.

The proper Ngau Tau Kok is around the present-day corner of Kwun Tong Road. It is grow out of a village, then squatter and then public housing estate. In 1936 maps, Jordan Valley is marked as Tai Wan Tsuen, or Tai Wan closed to the shore, and a earlier map of 1932, there are several villages around Ngau Chi Wan. Both marked a distinction from Ngau Tau Kok. South coast of Jordan Valley is a natural extension of the town but not the north.

People usually refer the area around Ping Shek Estate as Ngau Chi Wan or Ping Shek. Up the Clear Water Bay Road and New Clear Water Bay Road is the same cluster of residential housing. It is not linked to Ngau Tau Kok in the community. With in Kwun Tong District, Shun Lee Estate is more closer to Sau Mau Ping.

For Jordan Valley, even on government map, it make the area distinctive from Ngau Tau Kok.

— HenryLi (Talk) 02:43, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Since the article is unsource, please show the reference Ping Shek Estate and Shun Lee Estate are in Ngau Tau Kok. — HenryLi (Talk) 04:39, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Ngau Tau Kok, like Lam Tin, is not a precisely defined area. Therefore, the list of included areas should consists of two parts: Those who undoubtedly belong to and those only some consider belong to. (see the list of estates in Lam Tin for example). --Deryck C. 09:49, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that is why the source is very important to the encyclopeadia. In case of disagreement, more research on the topic is much needed. If we are lack of time and access to information, we should at lease have a preliminary research about the topic on the web.

In this case, I have searched some interesting information about Ping Shek Estate. [1][2][3]. The site of Ping Shek Estate was villages under the indigenous administration of Ngau Chi Wan. I guess there might be some post-WWII period when Hong Kong Government put it under the administration division of Ngau Tau Kok. As the birth of district boards, it is then changed to the adminstration of Kwun Tong District. In daily life, people usually named the place under Ngau Chi Wan. The property, No. 8 Clear Water Bay Road, over Ping Shek Bus Terminus is referred as a project in Ngau Chi Wan rather than Ngau Tau Kok.

The history of Ngau Tau Kok is difficult to find on web. I've found one [4]. Some said Shun Lee Estate was formerly known as Tseng Lan Shue.

Nowaday, as both estates are not under the administration and the name of Ngau Tau Kok, they should not be put under the definition section. A note is much appropriate if there are some evidents about their links with Ngau Tau Kok. — HenryLi (Talk) 16:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

It's believable that in the past "Tseng Lan Shue" contained the place that we call "Shun Lee" nowadays. Moreover, the place "Tseng Lan Shue" still exists today with this name. One more point, I have to make this point clear again - Ngau Tau Kok is not an administrative division, nor is it likely to be a geographical or population division. It's just some sort of common knowledge built up of nothing, probably the MTR station. --Deryck C. 16:36, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Ngau Tau Kok exists long before MTR station. Ngau Tau Kok was Hakka village and also a cape in the area. It is later developed into squatters after post-WWII. It is not out of nothing. The place name is clearly stated in early maps of Hong Kong and the location is exactly the same of present-day. Ngau Tau Kok could be and is an administrative unit, for example, in nowaday Hong Kong Police Force, Ngau Tau Kok Division do exist. The admistrative division can be much different and various from current form in pre-district board period. — HenryLi (Talk) 07:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

It seems a quite debating topic but let's take it easy. The place of the name is changed from time to time, mostly depends on the people living in there in particular moment. Sometimes it doesn't have a clear cut definition of the place as well. If there are some arguments, I suggest that we can send an enquiry to government officials to clarify that.

One more suggestion, if Ping Shek and Shun Lee is not included in Ngau Tau Kok, the population figure listed in the page now is incorrect. Could anyone help to correct it as I don't have any information on that? Due to the NTK Estate redevelopment, the pop'n in NTK is now much less that be4.

— Modotcom (Talk) 06:43, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

The story of Ngau Tau Kok is not rich enough. Maybe the debate might help to enrich the article. The history of Ngau Tau Kok is more than Amoy Food and SARS. The population data can be easier found in [5]. — HenryLi (Talk) 07:17, 23 April 2006 (UTC)