Talk:Mount Erciyes

Requested move 27 January 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Aervanath (talk) 05:59, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

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Mount Erciyes → Erciyes Dağı – native Turkish name Anthony Appleyard (talk) 13:35, 27 January 2017 (UTC)--Relisting. Anarchyte (work | talk) 08:27, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

• Inclined to support but @Anthony Appleyard: can you please given guidance on why some of Category:Mountains of Turkey have "Mount" but most don't? Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:57, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
• @In ictu oculi: Such pages were likeliest set up one by one by different people, and people's preferences vary. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:42, 27 January 2017 (UTC)
• @Anarchyte: Shall I remove the above bracket? --George Ho (talk) 02:00, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Oops. Fixed :) Anarchyte (work | talk) 03:46, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose - Recent sources use the current title: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]. Interchangeable: DK book[8]. News articles use "Mount". Not one English source exclusively uses "Dagi". George Ho (talk) 02:00, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose per George and in absence of any sources provided by the nominator. Jenks24 (talk) 09:43, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mount Erciyes/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ceranthor (talk · contribs) 16:52, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm happy to review this. ceranthor 16:52, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

​ Haven't forgotten about this. Just working on other GAN reviews / real life / prioritizing Ubinas right now. Will get to this in the next day or two. ceranthor 16:41, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Ceranthor Don't worry about this. A GAN review is not something that is really Do It Now Dammit urgent. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 18:30, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Lead

• "Argaeus" - is this a redirect? if not, not sure it's worth mentioning in the lead?
• "It is a large stratovolcano that is surrounded by many monogenetic vents and lava domes" - is it actually a field then? Bit confused by this
• "Supposedly, from its summit one can see both the Mediterranean and the Black Sea." - not sure this is worthy of inclusion, let alone in the lead, if it's only "supposedly"
• " Erciyes proper grew inside the caldera together with a group of lava domes. Lateral eruptions of Erciyes may have generated ash layers in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean during the early Holocene." - might be more clear to clarify "the Erciyes proper edifice"?
• "Future eruptions of Erciyes may endanger cities in the north." - north Turkey? geographically north? be more precise
• Think the lead should realistically be no more than two paragraphs, not four.

Apparently that name is uncommon but not entirely unused. I don't think that a volcano surrounded by monogenetic vents is necessarily considered a volcanic field; Mount Etna, Mauna Kea for example. Did the other things. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Etymology

• "Erciyes was historically known as Argaeus, a name derived from the king of Macedon Argaeus I (678 – 640 BC).[3] " - do you have a slightly more precise time frame for when the name changed? No worries if not, just curious.
• "Until the 1950s, the name of the volcano was "Erciyas".[4]" - any idea why it changed?
• "An alternative theory" - from whom? Why do you call it a "theory"?

  I presume that the first name change may have occurred in the 11th century or later when the area became populated by Turkish-speaking people, but I don't think I have a source for this. I'll ask about the second name change at WP:RX as I don't have access to the source anymore. Mended that issue. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

• I have big concerns regarding the name "Argaeus" coming from a Macedonian King who has no relation to central Anatolia at that time (7th century BCE), it is most likely just the Greek word meaning "white, shining" which is a simple answer. The Hittite name "Harkasos" is also very suspicious, for I was unable to find any source but the given one which is not in any way a history/Hittitology related paper. I found this source, that gives the Hittite name of the mountain as "divine Mount Harhari". I'd like to drop that other source, and use this in the text. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buræquete (talk • contribs) 04:32, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Geology and geomorphology

• I'd clarify the province is in Turkey, just to state the country explicitly.
• "Reaching the summit requires mountaineering skills.[10]" - seems like a verbose way of saying that it's not accessible by novice climbers? Reword perhaps?
• "Supposedly, climbers in antiquity reported that both the Black Sea and the Mediterranean could be seen from the summit.[11]" - do modern sources dispute this claim, then? You should clarify that too.
• No need to link ocean
• "Two oceans that existed between these three plates in the Eocene were subducted.[15]" - under where were they subducted? should clarify this.
• No need to link stratovolcano more than once
• "It developed over a broad shield,[14]" - should clarify what you mean by a shield for a lay reader
• "and has a hummocky appearance.[34] " - link hummock?
• " (Maars are small volcanoes formed by phreatomagmatic activity that excavates country rock.[47]) " - this comes abruptly and not after the first reference to maars... perhaps convert to a footnote? And move it to the first reference to maars!
• Need to cut overlinking with epochs and different types of volcanic rock - linking many of them more than once in the article body text

  Got most of these things. Re Strabo I am personally doubtful of such a claim and it's a fairly old (2000 years) source but without sources to contradict it I am not sure if to remove. I think that most readers can figure out what "shield" means. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Climate and biology

• "Farther up, between 1,100–2,500 metres (3,600–8,200 ft), forests of Juniperus, Populus tremula and Quercus prevail where the environment has not been modified by human activity. Farther up, mountain pastures exist.[37] " - maybe replace second "Farther up" with "At higher elevations"?
• "Erciyes is a major floral region of Turkey, with much biological diversity of plants." - kind of generic; rephrase perhaps to be more specific?
• I would briefly clarify who Strabo is
• "but differences exist between the various areas of Erciyes.[74]" - such as?

Cut out some sentences. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Glaciation

• "The volcano was glaciated during the Pleistocene,[75] when about three stages of glaciation occurred" - "during which", not "when about"
• "Meltwater from these glaciers nourished a lake in the Sultansazlıği basin.[40]" - still there?

Done and answered. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Eruptive history

• "One of the famous Cappadocian ignimbrites that extend over eastern Cappadocia, the Valibaba Tepe ignimbrite,[86] was linked to Erciyes volcano.[14] " - disorganized writing; you mention the Cappadocian ignimbrites before mentioning what Cappadocia is?
• "The next phase of activity was explosive, with eruptions at the summit of Ercyies " - typo?
• "The deposits of this activity are found north and south of the summit of Ercyies" - same as above?

Remedied. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Threats and human interaction

• Does the source explicitly connect the volcano to mudflows/lahars?
• Not sure "human interaction" is appropriate... but haven't devised a good replacement yet that feels better suited. TBD on this point.

Yes, the source does that. Regarding the tourism sentence, maybe into the "glacier" section? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Discoveries and locations named after Erciyes

• "Mount Argaeus on the Moon was named after Argaeus, the old name for Erciyes.[108]" - I thought Argaeus was a king?
• too crufty... think these should be combined into etymology and the climate/biology sections, respectively.

Dissolved this section and answered the other question too. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Prose needs tightening. will provide ref/image comments once these are fixed (and any additional thoughts/suggestions). ceranthor 15:55, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

​ Got the listed issues. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:35, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Will get to this later today. ceranthor 14:04, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Final run-through comments

• "The city of Kayseri lies 15 kilometres (9.3 mi),[8] 25 kilometres (16 mi),[9] or 20 kilometres (12 mi) north of Erciyes volcano" - maybe add a note to clarify that sources vary on the exact distance, and make this "between 15 km and 20 km"?
• "Supposedly, climbers in antiquity reported that both the Black Sea and the Mediterranean could be seen from the summit.[12]" - I'd cut out "supposedly"
• "disappearing through subducted.[16]" - is this meant to read "through subduction"?
• "a movement that is still underway today.[18]" - reads a bit awkwardly
• "stratovolcanoes, including Erciyes Dagi and Hasan Dagi on the one hand and monogenetic volcanoes and maars[a] on the other hand, developed.[13]" - move "developed" to right after stratovolcanoes to reduce separation between subject and verb
• " has been dated at 15,500 ± 2,500 years ago based on fission track dating.[25]" - to reduce verbiage, can you rephrase as "has been fission tracked dated..." and cut out the "based on..."
• "reaching a height of 3,864 metres (12,677 ft),[2] 3,918 metres (12,854 ft)[30] or 3,917 metres (12,851 ft),[9][8][3][31][32][33] " - fix the ref order so they're ascending (minor)
• "Today, the basin contains wetlands that are protected under the Ramsar Convention and a major nesting site for migratory birds.[43]" - would add a verb before "major nesting site..."; "are" or "remain" perhaps?
• General concern about repeating links throughout the body. Not a major issue IMO, but definitely will be scrutinized at higher levels of review like FAC. Prefer to avoid overlinking in general though.
• "The geographer Strabo claimed that, in antiquity, the volcano was forested.[12] " - have an estimated age for this claim?
• "20,700 ± 2,200 and 20,400 ± 1,800 years ago deglaciation occurred in the two catchments." - both of these times? or at one of them? bit confused by the sentence
• no need to link snow!
• Why are certain journal articles given sfns but others just have footnotes with their full bibliographic entries?
• Refs are certainly comprehensive and reliable.
• Source info appears to be missing for File:ErciyesDagi.jpg?
• Earwig's tool seems to check out

Once these are addressed, happy to pass this as a GA. ceranthor 00:10, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

​ Did these. Made the distance to Kayseri to a range since cities have a width. I don't think this one will head to FAC anywhere soon unless an interested Turkish speaker shows up whi can access and translate Turkish sources; as-is the article is entirely English language source reliant. Re Strabo I think that was the first century BC given the date of Geographica. Regarding the deglaciation the sources say Mount Erciyes at 20.7±2.2 ka and20.4±1.8 ka for the two different catchments does that mean that one deglaciated at a different time? Re citation formats that is the two systems I usually use. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 06:18, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

​ for the two different catchments seems to imply two slightly different deglaciation times, but that might be made more clear in the context. Going to pass this now, but I would appreciate if you could try to reword that for clarity that you are giving slightly different time periods for the two catchments. ceranthor 12:42, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

​ Had an insight while on the train so I've reworded that catchment sentence. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 14:13, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring on etymology

There are IPs (from the same ISP) that want to remove the Greek alternative name from the lead. I think we can mention it in the lead. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:15, 20 June 2023 (UTC)