Talk:Motorcycle fairing

Reduced inertia? Not always!

Fairing may carry headlights, instruments, etc. which reduces the weight and hence the inertia of the steering assembly, improving the handling.

That's only the case if the fairing is frame-mounted. The "batwing" fairing on Harley-Davidson Electra Glide motorcycles is fork-mounted, so all of the mass is still on the fork, as is the mass of the fairing itself. Respectfully, SamBlob (talk) 02:26, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Why should handlebar fairings be included? There are too many sub types being mentioned that have no significance.Flatshooter (talk) 09:40, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

abs brakes image

why is there abs brakes image in the "Motorcycle components" block on this page ? i'd suggest it for removal --212.93.101.70 (talk) 22:22, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

That is a navigation box (or navbox for short) which is placed as a template at the bottom of a number of related pages. This is a link to the template on its own {{Motorcycle components}}. The intention is to provide the reader with links to related topics - essentially an expanded version of the "See also" section. If you still think the image is inappropriate, or a better one can be used, then please comment on the template's talk page. Hope that helps. --Biker Biker (talk) 02:27, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

How reliable is the source?

Maico Mobil from the 1950s

"The first factory installed full fairing was that installed on the BMW R100RS introduced in 1976." – From the article; source: Sport-Touring Defined: The BMW RS Series

Granted, this cites a source, but how reliable is the source? Especially since the Maico Mobil, featuring a very full fairing and integrated panniers, was introduced in 1950? Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 13:57, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Fibreglass enclosures

Really, the Maico's a scooter resembling a Heinkel Tourist 'cept that's a step-through. Realistically, it must be the Vincent Black Prince and Knight which had the first fibreglass factory-fitted fairings in 1955, although not quite the same as the type fitted to the beemer 20 years later. Most of the British manufacturers had aftermarket fairings available (probably in matching finishes) from the early 1960s (I'd need to check the date - *somewhere in the house*) through Doug Mitchenall's Avon business, although these were the same generic design with specific bracketry and cooling ducts. These were ordered through franchised dealers or fitted at the Avon works in Wiltshire, England.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:17, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Interesting quote from The Classic MotorCycle, 1996:

Always looking to the future, he [Doug Mitchenall] considered using the new wonder material — glass reinforced plastic. This was before GRP's virtues were widely appreciated, and years before Phil Vincent showed his series D motorcycles with glass fibre enclosure to an astonished world.

Rocknrollmancer (talk) 23:05, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Airflow Enfield having complementary-styled front mudguard with integral fork shrouds

I've now found the other 'missing' mag with the following quote (same author / details as above):

One of Mitchenall's serious competitors was Royal Enfield, first on the market with a factory fitted dolphin fairing, called the Airflow. These rather ugly but efficient designs were made by a novel process...

Reviewing the original BMW R100RS source in its own context, it would seem reasonable, having in the intro careful use of wording "which carried low-ish handlebars and aerodynamic fairings" so low-ish handlebars would be the (important?) difference from reflecting 20 years' engineering development.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 12:54, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Quote from Motorcycle Sport (UK mag) 1978:

Philip Vincent's last motorcycles, the Series D range, were the first to use fibreglass for weather protection, and not only do the enclosed models enable the rider to cover long distances with less fatigue than is the case with a naked machine, they also handle better in cross winds.

--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 10:27, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

First of all, by what criteria is a Maico Mobil defined as a scooter and not as a touring motorcycle?

Secondly, I have found and read an archived copy of the article, which is no longer available directly on the internet, and it does not support the supposed "first". I will therefore delete it.

Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 17:56, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

• Fourteen inch tyres are the only criterion I need to qualify it as scooter
• Possibly single-sided front fork (no pic, yet, probably also at rear) for another
• Two-piece, pressed-steel (non wire spoked) wheels, probably interchangeable, for another
• Extensive pressed-steel panels (I surmise steel) for another
• Fan-cooled engine (Newnes Data) for another
• Newnes Motor Cycle Data Book 1960 - Brief Specifications of Scooters, p.89, Maico Mobil, Maicoletta for another
• Any one of the above is convincing, taken together is compelling

I did not 'chuck' the Velo image into the middle of the article; it was carefully placed to illustrate adjacent existing prose (which I did not write) with due regard to the display settings (at least on my screen - admittedly 4:3). Perhaps you missed this connection? I only chanced upon the image from the work I've been doing on Avon (fairings and other products) which company made the Velo engine fairings. I don't agree that 'lead image' placement as you have changed it to is necessary in a section of what is a short article; once again, Wikipedia suffers from your adherence to dogma by distancing the image away from the prose.

I've checked two BMW R100RS period articles, Bike (UK magazine) Feb 1977 and this is yet another quote from Motorcycle Sport, UK mag July 1978:

The effect of the fairing is to make the R100RS a far more practical motorcycle...Very genuine three-figure cruising speeds are not only possible but feel little more sensational than our mundane legal limit. It makes one wonder why it has taken BMW alone to reintroduce it.

I don't propose contributing to this Motorcycle fairing article, but historically it's vague; once again I only chanced upon the 'Delphin' img after I received a message from the owner when I cropped-out pieces from another of his images, correctly renaming and using them, which he manually changed back to the original: "Hallo Rocknrollmancer, I know that this here is a Wiki. But nevertheless I don't like your revising my photos. Please contact me if you should mean you could do it better than I in future. Kind regards" Eventually he calmed down after I changed the images back to how I intended, but I only found the Delphin image afterwards on a Watchlist.

I received an email query from US well over a year ago which I was unable to satisfy fully until I found the Motor Cycle quotation (with a poor resolution image). They weren't called 'Dolphin' in UK common conversation - only used by journalists and advertising copy-writers. Accordingly, I knew the WP article was vague, so when I found the NSU Delphin image I added it and the full quotation. I am therefore happy for you to revise this article as you see fit, and to leave the scooter image in if you're comfortable with it. Always a pleasure.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 23:38, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

I've now found the article you created, where you've cited two sources, both named as "scooters" - Scooters Van Toen and Classic Scooters. So in whose opinion(?) is this a "an early touring motorcycle"??? Also quoted is "telescopic front forks" ForkS?? Or forK?

Wasted too much time on this already. It's interesting as an attempt at a crossover bike using some conventional engineering as a basis but largely irrelevant and too much off-topic to be included prominently into the History section of this article, IMO.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 11:25, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

You might notice that I never claimed the Maico Mobil was the first motorcycle to feature a full fairing. I merely said that the BMW R100RS could not have had "The first factory installed full fairing" because the Maico Mobil had one in 1950. This is called a counter-example. You have since given a few more counter-examples, and I have found that the source didn't actually support the statement.

As for whether the Mobil is a scooter or not, most of the definitions I've found agree on two things: Scooters have a footboard, and scooters have a step-through design. The Mobil has a pair of footboards but does not have a step-through design. A Mobil is no more a scooter than an Ariel Leader is.

Sincerely, SamBlob (talk) 23:25, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

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