Talk:Misha B

Images

the are lots of images on instagram, often a bit grainy, where no clear license is shown and they are relevant and good enough standard, can we use them. e.g. http://instagram.com/p/RxEMl_lX3u/ http://www.tineye.com/search/24333602f65f482d349666e95c162bc744a6f5de/?pluginver=firefox-1.0

Question Re Layout

Should the separate section 'Touring and Performances' be time sensitively shuffled back into the appropriate yearly Biography sections. X factor is there already (which were performances) for 2011. Would make the article simpler.Bodney (talk) 08:40, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

I am not sure if her official releases are any more biographical than her performances/appearancesBodney (talk) 08:42, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

A few similar things were in either section. Made changes, knowing that it can changed back if not liked.Bodney (talk) 09:08, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Good changes. It makes more sense this way. Thanks! —JennKR | ☎ 19:55, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Phew! lolol. Thanks Bodney (talk) 20:49, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Flickr MOBO Image

Is it worth chasing up this image http://www.flickr.com/photos/reds42/8170543433/ for a better creative commons licence. Bodney (talk) 19:06, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, if you have the time and the owner will release it under the right license, it's a good image and the watermark is at the bottom so we can crop that out. —JennKR | ☎ 18:50, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

In fact, we probably could use it as the main infobox image. —JennKR | ☎ 18:51, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Can we use Facebook regards some basic info

https://www.facebook.com/IamMishaB/info She places her Genre SOUL/RnB/HIPHOP Also says her label is Sony / Relentless (instead of RCA)Bodney (talk) 22:58, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

itunes does not mention RCABodney (talk) 10:55, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

despite not seeing it anywhere else...Music Week is her um top source...& RCA is a division of Sony...I will put both until someone objectsBodney (talk) 12:24, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Facebook is not the best source (as I said above) and the fact that the page isn't verified (a relatively recent system) doesn't help this credibility. She's listed on a page of Sony Artists so you can either put Sony/Relentless or RCA/Relentless (whatever your preference is - I'm not sure if there is a rubric for this thing). —JennKR | ☎ 18:11, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Accepted, as both Grammy.com and Music Week are both top international sources I ended up including both with Relentless. Possibly messy.Bodney (talk) 18:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

On a slightly unrelated note, is this her official website? —JennKR | ☎ 18:12, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, looking a tad out of date and unloved. I dont think much of her publicity team. She is most active on twitter and instagram thingy online.Bodney (talk) 18:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

The store part is totally dead...which was raised in the tempoary false rumours that she had been dropped by her label (for a week she was not on the Relentless artist page)Bodney (talk) 18:22, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Well done Bodney, page reads much better than I ever saw it now. You would have found it impossible to make any headway with it a year ago as it was largely 'owned' by an obsessive individual back then. Only edit war I ever got into in all my time on the Wiki. Wikimucker (talk) 19:22, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

And JennK. I don't know HOW you stuck with this particular article, I have never seen a wikipedia article that magnetically and unerringly attracts such a huge amount of low grade celebrity mag gloop as supposedly 'supporting' 'references', much of it evidently copied and pasted from PR issued to the mag. It is a veritable whackamole. Well done in particular to you for maintaining the requisite base standard expected in the wiki and in the face of relentless editing in of utter rubbish, particularly last year. You have my full support as always and please feel free to order me into any trench you find yourself in...... any time. Wikimucker (talk) 19:42, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

MUSIC GENRES

Can we agree lol

Currently on the wikipedia pages of her 3 officially released songs

Home Run - Dancehall, Reggae Fusion;

Do You Think of Me - Electro-House, Soul, Dance-Pop;

Here's to Everything (Ooh La La) - Pop, Drum and Base

(The is a strong drum and Base element to Home Run)

Considering her two freestyles, two mixtapes, duets with Krept & Konan, Angel (musician), and Charlie Brown and dozens of covers and other work - I would def add hiphop, rap and rnb.

(Though it def does not count she is promised in several places that her next official releases are going to be more 'heavy soul')Bodney (talk) 10:34, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

I have cleaned up the critics section and changed the genres to reflect this in the Do You Think of Me to Contemporary R&B and dance-pop. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bodney (talk • contribs) 16:27, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Added genres with supporting citations to the page (with snippet quotes to the citations showing genres mentioned in the text).

Contemporary R&B (def Do You Think of Me + "Ugly Love" & "Silent Cry" from "Knock Knock" + her duets "Ride or Die" & "Floodgates Part 2" covers like "Girl on Fire", "Diamonds" )

Hip hop music (F64, MishStyle, her covers of Drake's "Started from the Bottom", Jay Z and Kanye West's "No Church in the Wild". )

Rap (F64, MishStyle, and Drake's "Started from the Bottom" and her Rap breaks on Xfactor "Respect", "Rolling In The Deep", "Girls Wanna have Fun)

Drum & Bass (Here's to Everything, Home Run)

Dancehall (Home Run)

Reggae Fusion (Home Run, Here's to Everything)

Dance-Pop (Do You think of Me +

Pop (i guess everything is pop, catch all)

Contemporary R&B (combines elements of *rhythm and blues, *pop, *soul, funk, and *hip hop} & Reggae Fusion (mixes *reggae or *dancehall with other genres, such as *pop, rock, *R&B, jazz & *drum and bass) are both broader music genres that include many of the music styles/genres that are used by Misha B and her production teams. I have Included both Rap & Hip Hop music and Pop & Dance-pop, not sure whether these should be edited down.Bodney (talk) 02:19, 10 September 2013 (UTC) Edited Bodney (talk) 05:40, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Hello, you may not be aware but because of past disagreements and as a general rule of thumb, mass genre changes should be agreed on by consensus. As it stands there are way too many "genres" here. You must note that modern popular music tends to contain lots of elements of different music styles and thus because something is described as containing these elements, it doesn't mean that the artist's music is of that genre. I see pop, R&B and hip-hop as the best description; she certainly is not a reggae (or reggae fusion), dancehall or drum & bass artist. You have also listed "hip hop" and "rap" separately, when they are the same thing. Regards. —JennKR | ☎ 15:28, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Many Thanks for the response. Sorry maybe being tired I acted too quick but I thought the references spoke clearly for themselves. I was concerned that the might be too many genres (not sure if that's a rule) and just came online to edit :). As you said I "listed "hip hop" and "rap" separately, when they are the same thing" that was down to poor decision making on my part. I came online to especially check whether Dance-Pop was appropriate. It came from the "Do You Think of Me article", but I am not so sure. I also wanted to reduce drum & base, dancehall and reggae fusion to just Reggae Fusion but was a bit concerned that some readers would not understand.

However Considering the number of professional reviews of the music she has actually released that repeatedly include reggae, drum and base, dancehall (e.g. reggae fusion elements in nearly all the her music) it is clearly a major element in her music.

• Misha B's Home Run v Leanne Mitchell Run To You: Video Fight Club >>> url = http://metro.co.uk/2012/06/15/misha-bs-home-run-v-leanne-mitchell-run-to-you-video-fight-club-468733/ >>>quote ="funky dancehall number"
• Misha B: B+ >>> url = http://www.bluesandsoul.com/feature/806/misha_b_b/ >>> quote= "dancehall/soul-tinged"
• Singles Of The Week (29 April 2013) >>> url = http://sosogay.co.uk/2013/singles-of-the-week-29-april-2013/ >>> quote = "a booming, drum n bass, pop number"
• Misha B - "Here's To Everything (Ooh La La)" >>> url = http://www.soulculture.co.uk/music-blog/musicvids/misha-b-heres-to-everything-ooh-la-la-music-video/ >>> quote = "R&B with reggae, pop, drum & bass elements"
• First listen: Misha B - Home Run >>> url = http://www.4music.com/news/news/4613/First-listen-Misha-B-Home-Run >>> quote="reggae-infused, drum and bass influenced beats"
• Misha B: 'Here's To Everything (Ooh La La)' >>> url = http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/singlesreviews/a476155/misha-b-heres-to-everything-ooh-la-la-single-review.html >>> quote ="drum 'n' bass-pop chorus"
• MUSIC BOX: Misha B's New Single 'Here's To Everything (Ooh La La)' >>> url = http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/27/misha-b-heres-to-everything-introducing-tiny-dancer-valentiine_n_2772598.html >>> quote = "Infused with reggae pop and with a drum and bass influenced beat"
• Misha B Exclusive Interview >>> url = http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/music/interviews/Misha+B-246730.html >>> quote="reggae and soul sounds on the track" Bodney (talk) 16:49, 10 September 2013 (UTC) keep missing stuff off ...sorry I am tired Bodney (talk) 16:54, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Her (probably her own agency written) Vevo and Band Page pages say "Misha is not just a great soul artist…or a great R&B artist, or even a great hip-hop artist. The British-born, Manchester-bred vocalist is malleable enough to encompass several genres, while displaying vocals reminiscent of Motown-era greats. Misha is armed with the Vocals to blow people away, and the vision to make history." Nice and glowing lol Bodney (talk) 17:27, 10 September 2013 (UTC) One of the things about this artist is that she is not restricted by music genres, so it is going to be a longer list than many other singers.Bodney (talk) 17:29, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

It really shouldn't be a longer list than most singers as what she is doing is quite common. If you take any pop/R&B/hip hop artist, you can find elements of lots of genres in songs—sampling has defined music post-90s, and this has led to elements of diverse genres (like reggae fusion, dancehall) being incorporated into songs. If you take an artist like Jay Z, his infobox contains one genre: hip hop. Yet his music has elements of alternative music ("On to the Next One"), R&B ("'03 Bonnie & Clyde"), hip house ("Niggas in Paris"), soul ("Empire State of Mind") and rap rock ("99 Problems", "Numb/Encore"). It's a similar thing for Misha B, her songs may dip into elements of more specific genres, but can be categorised broadly as pop, R&B or hip hop. Things, of course, may be much clearer upon the release of her debut album—were she might experiment with specific genres frequently—but as it stands, her sampling styles on a few singles does not make her a member of those genres. —JennKR | ☎ 17:57, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

I am probably too tired (no sleep last night)for a proper discussion and we are not really in a rush. LOL as she says, she does not want to be pinned down. (Sorry I really should have held fire before adding the genres to the page).

Looking at your example of Jay Z and his songs, I do believe Misha is a more varied artist when it comes to genres, but understand and appreciate your point. I do think the is less evidence (based on independent reviews) for Pop than the is for reggae fusion (which includes pop as one of its elements, mixed in with drum & base, dancehall, reggae). I agree the album will make it clearer ... though I think we can expect another (she has hinted) "heavy soul" single this autumn first. Bodney (talk) 18:18, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Comparing her to other more multi-genre & far more successful artists (& admittedly with lots more releases & years experience) than little Misha

• Rhianna Genres R&B, pop, reggae, hip hop, dance
• Lauryn HillGenres Contemporary R&B hip hop neo soul reggae fusion
• Tina Turner Genres Rock, pop, soul, R&B
• Prince (musician) Genres Funk, R&B, rock, pop, new wave, Minneapolis sound, synthpop
• Madonna (entertainer) Genres Dance electronic pop rock
• David Bowie Genres Rock, glam rock, art rock, pop
• Micheal Jackson Genres Pop, rock, soul, R&B, funk, disco, new jack swing

etc ...point being the genre lists are not limited. Bodney (talk) 19:24, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Misha's own words describing the music genres included in Here's to Everything

• "The song dynamics are really interesting actually. There’s some dubstep in there, with a dancey reggae style which I hope will get everyone dancing. Reggae is a style close to my heart, and I love to draw on my Jamaican roots. So Drums and rhythm are a real priority to me." >>> url = http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/whereilive/localheadlines/10345441.Misha_B_talks_about_her_rise_to_fame_and_her_upbeat_new_single/

• "dub step infused with a splash reggae and dance" >>> url =http://uk.omg.yahoo.com/gossip/110--pop/misha-b--the-voice-will-grow-with-time-the-x-factor-didn%E2%80%99t-always-have-huge-ratings-exclusive-113447820.html

Bodney (talk) 09:36, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Well, you said it, artists with "admittedly with lots more releases & years experience". You've also chosen artists which are synonymous with genres—in fact some of them practically established them—glam rock (Bowie), Minneapolis sound (Prince), neo-soul/reggae fusion (Lauryn Hill). Note that all but one of the artists you have listed have had a 20+ year career, in the case of Bowie 50 years and Prince perhaps a decade shy of that. Deciding the genres of an artist with no album is difficult, but it's important not to confuse how elements of genres are on songs make that person a member of that genre. You can probably find 5+ songs or even whole albums for the genres listed of artists above, with the limited releases it's not the same here. I don't see any reason to stretch beyond pop, R&B and hip hop—perhaps even without pop. Thoughts? —JennKR | ☎ 13:38, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

To add, self-description is not the best (you generally get a lot of this "I'm not defined"/"not in a box" stuff), and basing genres of specific songs isn't also. If this was the case Beyoncé would be a dancehall artist because of this song and a funk artist because of this. Simply, don't confuse elements/sampling with being a member of that genre, but I'm not necessarily ruling them out Bryan as a member of any of the above, it's just not evident yet.

My idea was more (originally) choosing examples of artists whose music was more varied than most. I go blank when remembering artist names even ones I like. Good to have this discussion.Bodney (talk) 15:06, 11 September 2013 (UTC) editedBodney (talk) 18:59, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Another small point on the pile ... the one artist the industry experts Grammy.com aka The National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences (http://www.grammy.com/news/misha-b-in-the-uk-spotlight) and others have compared her to is Lauryn Hill whose style, as you point out, is most famous for neo-soul/reggae fusion . Bodney (talk) 10:48, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

They compared their ability to rap and sing in songs, not that they were of the same genre. I asked this before, but you may have not seen, are you okay with adding just R&B and hip hop for now? When she releases another mixtape or her debut album, you're welcome to restart a discussion on some genres you think are more prevalent in her work. —JennKR | ☎ 12:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh oh...I was just about to check whether you agreed to that :)..Yes sorry. I would say Contemporary R&B as that is to me more clearly different to RnB than just R&B. Bodney (talk) 12:25, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh that's good! I'll add it. Regards. —JennKR | ☎ 12:31, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

It is good to bounce alongside a experienced & patient editor like yourself. Respect.Bodney (talk) 13:19, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Just for interest. Regards Youtube as a source

I was checking out another source. I have read and been told that Youtube should not be used as a source or primary source. But this "rule" is not strictly true.

Regards sources, amongst the trillion wikipedia pages I read recently was the fact that the was no blanket ban on youtube pages, especially if they are official like Vevo...but I cant find the original page I saw (* https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links/Perennial_websites * https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Video_links ). Basically I believe it is saying Youtube can be used, definetly if it is an official account, it should not disregarded or removed, and can be used were better sources can not be found, or to support those sources.Bodney (talk) 14:09, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

The are in fact 70,611 Wikipedia pages that link to youtube.com (a total of 116,473 links to youtube.com on Wikipedia) making it the fourth most linked online resource? source: http://webempires.org/wikirank/top Bodney (talk) 12:13, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Maybe that is just telling me that 70K pages need cleanups LOL :)Bodney (talk) 12:19, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Nice graphic http://webempires.org/blog/wikirank-wikipedias-top-sources/ Bodney (talk) 12:34, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

plus ...within reasonable limits, if the are many other good sources in an article, relax. Bodney (talk) 14:19, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

YouTube is okay as long as it's an official account (referencing something otherwise would break copyright law) and is not providing an interpretation on something. Although secondary sources are always preferred and will strengthen any YouTube link. Vevo is certainly an occasionally useful link for music video releases.

PS: Your infographic is certainly interesting, but I noticed iMDB was at #6, and, as you can tell from the list of perennial websites, is not a reliable source. The high figures for some less-preferred/controversial sources (including YouTube, MySpace, Facebook and Twitter) may be misleading as they are often used as an external link (at the bottom of the page) rather than as a reference in the article. —JennKR | ☎ 02:12, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

You are defo correct there :) -- BOD -- 04:15, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Appreciation to all those who Improve this article

Many hands make better article. Many thanks to User:Ohconfucius for to responding to my question by speedily fixing my erroneous error in thinking the American date format was preferred, plus other tidy ups. They also tidied up the individual song pages to, where I had spent too much time repeating the same error...doh! :) Love those scripts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bodney (talk • contribs) 10:56, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Career 2012 & 2013 Sub-headings

With an EP (called by Misha on twitter FOE) announced for Xmas eve it is highly unlikely that we will not see an album from this artist this year. Truthfully we dont know if an album will ever appear, never-mind its name or what songs will be on it etc. In the meantime should we give the two sub-titles '2012' and '2013' more descriptive names. In 2012 the was a mixtape, two singles and a tour with Nicki Minaj. In 2013 a mixtape, a single, a future EP and 4 more months.

Keeping it simple and based on known facts... Maybe we could simply use the mixtape names (as both also inc snippets of one of the singles) as titles. 2012: Heres to Everything. 2013: Knock Knock.

As the article evolves over time, as this Singers career changes, headings may change, sections might merge etc., so it it is a temporary thing based on what we think currently suits the page best.Bodney (talk) 21:12, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

any objection if I change the two year headings to include the mixtapes e.g Year: Mix Tape. That title will probably remain until at least the new year with the arrival of the EP (not sure if the EP sadly replaces the current expected album)Bodney (talk) 12:47, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Apologies for not getting back to you in time. I've been working on a featured article candidate and particularly busy in RL. These are what I would've chose as headings so you have my support. —JennKR | ☎ 01:51, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

I've added #FOE to the sub-heading as it is the third mixtape and has a title and release date—an event which is almost certain to happen. —JennKR | ☎ 18:46, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

cool, I am never sure what to do with future events FOE might be short for something (i was wondering about the Foe bit in the discography - i shall worry less). She has mentoned that she will start singing songs from it at a gig 10-12 Oct. I look up to your good articles, keep up the excellent work, though we sometimes disagree this article certainly benefits from having an experienced editor. I was going to try to wait a little longer but I have had 3 nights in 4 where I have not slept till 6am so I am a bit over streeetched.

I realise I was breaking poss my own rule by using her surname, guess I was trying to add variety ;)

(2P) Melody Kane is almost an Associated act, in fact she is Misha B's official DJ ....what is meant by an "Associated Act" really...are the different folks who she was on TV show really still associated?

The stephen Lawrence piece was interesting :( partly because she wrote the piece in the huff (Thought it had been removed)...maybe it should have been in the activism section, love the title activism title (as an old activist) but maybe it is a bit limiting ---should we change it to Public Life?

No rush. Despite my very varied active interests in the past ...politics, environmentalism, history etc I rarely venture my edits beyond this article -- BOD -- 20:25, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

You've brought up a lot of points here, so I'll bullet point my replies for clarity:

• Don't worry about the subsequent use (Bryan vs. Misha B), the consensus was never clear for either. Personally, I think Bryan is nicer to use (the "B" in Misha B can sound awkward), but it should be Misha B as it's what she is most known for.

: I agree, the loan B can also look bit awkward - but we should use her stage/public name, Bryan to me looks too formal (but wikipedia is formal) ...my main thought recently was to add variety and not too many "Misha B did that", then "Misha B did this", followed by "Misha B did that" etc while avoiding resorting to "she's".

• Does Melody Kane have a Wikipedia page? If so, then I'd consider it. (The red link suggests not)

: I could not find one

• It should remain "Activism" unless you're thinking of expanding the section into a "Personal life" one—this involves more details than just charity/causes.

—JennKR | ☎ 20:58, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

: Okay:) TY -- BOD -- 21:15, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Misha B Discography

I recently attempted to expand this singers disco-thingy by adding tracklists to her two mix-tapes. They were removed with the reasonable advise that these should appear on either separate pagess regards those mixtapes or on a separate Discography page relating to the artist.

I am putting this here to easy store the gathered information, plus make it available to help anyone wanting to create such pages. Due to current Health reasons I am not sure when I will be able to set up a separate page myself for a short while, so if anyone wanted to start it, that is cool.

Current known sources are not the best grade/secondary:

for Why Hello World

• http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/news/a378935/misha-b-releases-why-hello-world-mixtape-listen.html

• http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=misha+b+why+hello+world&oq=misha+b+whygs_l=youtube.1.0.0.176.176.0.3343.1.1.0.0.0.0.890.890.6-1.1.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.B5EQ76-wEe8

• http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/Entertainment/Music/Misha-B-Why-Hello-World-Mixtape

• https://soundcloud.com/iammishab/why-hello-world-mixtape

for Knock Knock

• https://musicbrainz.org/release/f046722d-52d7-4e50-a869-542a11442f74
• https://soundcloud.com/iammishab/knock-knock-the-mix-tape-1

Track list from the above are:

Why Hello World Track listing

No.	Title	Original Artist	Length
1.	"Why Hello World Misha B Intro"	Misha B	.55
2.	"'Big Dreaming'"	Misha B	1.30
3.	"Crew Love" (Can't You See Refix)	Weeknd feat. Drake	.42
4.	"Unpretty" (Original / Misha B Cover (Cut))	TLC	3.04
5.	"Run the World" (Stylus Refix)	Beyonce	.37
6.	"- Last Forever"	Misha B	1.07
7.	"Home Run"	Misha B	1.13
8.	"Rolling in the Deep" ((Classic Hip Hop Blend) / Misha B Cover)	Adele	2.37
9.	"Climax"	Usher	.48
10.	"Mirror" (Original / Misha B Cover)	Lil Wayne feat. Bruno Mars -	2.48
11.	"Outro"		.31

Knock Knock Track listing

No.	Title	Producer(s)	Length
1.	"Respect" (Otis Redding)		1:07
2.	"Here's to Everything (Ooh La La)" (Written by: Misha B & Talay Riley)	Scribz Mixed and James Reynolds	1:16
3.	"Alien Avenue / I Need a Dollar" (Written by Misha B, Carla Marie Williams)	Focus & Mokeyzz (B.M.E)	4:12
4.	"Er’Body" (Written by Misha B)	Delerious	1:33
5.	"Ugly Love" (Written by: Misha B, Carla Marie Williams, Dion Howell)	Focus & Mokeyzz (B.M.E)	3:06
6.	"Silent Cry" (Written by: Misha B)	Burgaboy	2:48
7.	"Weak" (SWV)		1:49
8.	"To Whoever It May Concern" (Written by: Misha B)	Delerious	2:03

Adding Music Samples

Sorry I have not a clue how to start. Many bio pages about singers have media music samples, it would be good to add at least a couple to this artist's page. But where do you find free music samples, i find it difficult enough finding rights-free photos. Samples of her raps would be good, but samples of her singing vocals would be better.

(obviously non free, but starting places * https://soundcloud.com/iammishab/ * http://www.youtube.com/user/MishaBVEVO) -- BOD -- 12:10, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

waiting info regards pic

Misha B at North Wales Pride 2014

photo has a Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic (CC BY-SA 2.0)

temp holding place waiting for comment on commons

-- BOD -- 01:38, 2 September 2014 (UTC)