Talk:Minnesota Fats (character)

Relocated main article on Wanderone

Resolved

 – Move has survived both WP:AFD and WP:RM debates.

"Minnesota Fats" was too misleading for Wanderone's article to have that name. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 02:33, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:NC-based rationale (now WP:AT)

Resolved

 – Just an FYI.

The guideline Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)#Do not overdo it states clearly: "In cases where the common name of a subject is misleading, then it is sometimes reasonable to fall back on a well-accepted alternative. ... This does not mean that we should avoid using widely known pseudonyms like Mark Twain, Marilyn Monroe, Billy the Kid, or widely known common names of animals and other things. But it does mean that we need to temper common usage when the commonly used term is unreasonably misleading...", which is clearly the case here.

The matter has been taken up at both Wikipedia:Articles for deletion (in which the nominator suggested that the fictional character article be merged into the article on the novel and/or the film, and Wanderone's moved to Minnesota Fats), and at Wikipedia:Requested moves (where the nominator wanted to undo the move, which would have necessitated relocating the character's article to a disambiguated title, like "Minnesota Fats (fictional character)"). Consensus in both cases rejected these notions (directly, with a consensus against merging of the fictional character into the main article on the work, and indirectly by consensus not changing with regard to Wanderone's article).

Generating more noise (i.e. continued circular discussion with no new information or rationale that might change the current consensus) about how important it is (to whomever) that Wanderone's article be at Minnesota Fats is likely to be perceived as disruptive, as will any further forum shopping. That said, a move of the real player's article to Rudolph Wanderone is probably in order, as the disambiguating "Jr." isn't necessary here. Also, the Minnesota Fats (pool player) redirect now works.

— SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 18:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

• Superseded by WP:AT policy, which essentially says the same thing: "Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources. Neutrality is also considered.... When there are multiple names for a subject, all of them fairly common, and the most common has problems, it is perfectly reasonable to choose one of the others."  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ⚞(^Ʌⱷ҅̆_⚲͜ⱷ^{^})≼  13:45, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

I read all of the debates, and with respect, I think much of what you and others who supported the ultimate decision had to say was extremely biased by both (1) your love of the film "The Hustler" and (2) your hatred of Minnesota Fats for adopting the name. Yes, he chose the name after the film came out and became popular, and yes, he chose the name to make money (which shouldn't surprise anyone- he was a pool hustler, and that's basically what they do). But it is still just like deadnaming a transgender person, or maybe more to the point, insisting on calling Muhammad Ali "Cassius Clay", as some racist sportswriters did to the bitter end, to insist on calling him by a name he no longer called himself, and did not become a famous and notable person under, while refusing to call him what he is actually known as.

Why would you possibly want to do that? Certainly not because of Wikipedia policies, which may allow for using a deadname in an article but do not in any event require anyone to call a person by the deadname. It's because you HATE, personally and viscerally, the fact that this pool player not only chose this name but went and became famous under it and made the name even more famous. That sort of hate, though, has nothing to do with an encyclopedia, and the fact that you won the debates and were able to petulantly insist on deadnaming Minnesota Fats here really calls your approach to this website into question.

Inspiration for "Fats Brown"

This topic was moved here from Talk:Rudolph Wanderone

I was under the impression that Minnesota Fats was the inspiration for "Fats Brown" in A Game of Pool. They certainly bear strong physical resemblance. If we can source this as true it should presumably go in the article. Anyone have any info about this? JoshuaZ (talk) 22:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

If there's a connection (which is very likely, given the date and the Twilight Zone's frequent lifting of themes from other media), it would have to be the fictional character, not Wanderone, as he was not famous by this nickname until several years after the film's release. Moving this dicussion to Talk:Minnesota Fats. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 19:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Needs a source, to be sure, but it could be mentioned as "possibly" or something, I suppose. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 19:00, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

IMDB is not a reliable source, as anyone can add "facts" to its entries. And anyway, I can't see where the referenced page makes the claim. I've removed the section. Please restore it if you can find a better source. Rojomoke (talk) 00:43, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Rudolf Wanderone#Name which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:29, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Minnesota Fats. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.goldenglobes.org/browse/film/25327
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120918212614/http://www.nbrmp.org/awards/past.cfm?year=1961 to http://www.nbrmp.org/awards/past.cfm?year=1961

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:37, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Rudolf Wanderone which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 20:34, 16 October 2024 (UTC)