Talk:Michael Shishman of Bulgaria

regarding the name

shishman is also a turkic word meaning 'an overweight person'. it is interesting that the word is a Bulgarian name. maybe there is no correlation..

Nope, there's no correlation. The word "shish", though is rpesent in nowadays Bulgarian and does mean that someone is fat - it derives from Turkish. But back at that time I don't think so. --Laveol ^T 13:29, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Also in modern Bulgarian “shishkav” means fat; but “shish” means: spit, broach.

Hey Laveol, there IS a correlation; not due to the Ottomans of course, but due to the Cuman Turks that the Shishmanid Dynasty probably originated from. Please see The Cumans, Cuman language, Cumania and Notable people of Cuman descent — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.223.24.199 (talk) 18:37, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Timeline

The timeline graphic seems a bit needless, an eight line dated list would give the same information in a more concise, more widely readable format. (Hohum ^@) 19:13, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Michael Shishman of Bulgaria/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 03:54, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

GAN on hold

I have reviewed this article according to the requirements of the GA criteria and have placed the article on hold until the following issues are addressed. As you address each issue, state how you addressed it (if necessary). If you disagree with a particular issue, state your rationale for doing so after the issue in question so a compromise can be reached.

1. "Michael Asen III (Bulgarian: Михаил Асен III, Mihail Asen III, commonly called Michael Shishman (Михаил Шишман, Mihail Šišman), Michael III Shishman or Michael III Shishman Asen)a[›]," Is there anyway this could be cut down with the names? It currently takes up almost an entire line with the multiple versions. Also the citation should go directly after the punctuation in line with the other citations throughout the article for consistency.

   Well, he is known by all these names and I don't know where else should they be mentioned... Do you have an idea? I have put the citation on place.

   How about keeping the original, the common name, and maybe the Bulgarian, and combine the rest with the current note "a"? --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

   Done. --Gligan (talk) 10:31, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

2. "The date of his birth is unknown." Although unknown, include the range listed in his "rise to the throne" section.

   Done, although I kept that construction so that there is no repetition with the sentence "Born between 1280 and 1292..." in the first section.

3. "An energetic and ambitious ruler, Michael Shishman led aggressive but opportunistic and inconsistent foreign policy..." If referring to single foreign policy instead of polices, use "led an aggressive...".

   Done.

4. Throughout the article, the full name of "Michael Shisman" is used. Just list the last name.

   I had the same remark in Ivan Vladislav's article :) Michael Shishman is always known with both names, only Shishman would be out of place - it either refers to his father (whose first name is not known) or the whole dynasty.

   Even though it is common, in light of WP:SURNAME, Shishman should be sufficient in describing him within the article. If his father or the dynasty is referred to throughout the article, then specify those instances with "Shishman's father" or the "Shishman dynasty". --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

   It could be so but in all sources he is refered to as Michael Shishman, never Shishman, and it would be very awkward to leave it as you suggest. I don't know what the reason is but almost all rulers of the Second Empire are known by both names and always refered to by both. For example we have Ivan Asen III but Ivan Alexander is not Ivan IV (Alexander) and Ivan Shishman is not Ivan V (Shishman)... --Gligan (talk) 10:31, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

5. "Michael Shishman divorced his wife Anna Neda and married to Theodora Palaiologina," "married Theodora"

   Done.

6. "...Byzantine Empire but the need for ally against the Serbs made Michael Shishman..." "for an ally"

   Done.

7. "At first he headed to Vidin, probably to join forces with the soldiers of his brother Belaur and then marched to the south." To avoid any issues with OR, reword to say, "to Vidin, where historians believe he wanted to join forces with the soldiers..." Or instead of historians, mention who indicated it instead of resorting to "probably".

   Done.

   The sentence should now use a comma after Belaur. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

   Done. --Gligan (talk) 10:31, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

8. "Backed on the agreement, Michael Shishman allowed his army to disperse in search for provisions but when in the morning of 28 July the main Serbian reinforcements, 1,000 heavily armed Catalan horsemen under the command of the King's son Stephen Dušan, the Serbs broke their word attacked the Bulgarians." There are several grammatical errors throughout this sentence, consider re-wording or even splitting into two sentences.

   Done (I think)...

   The split was a good idea, but revise the second sentence to "However, in the morning of 28 July, the main Serbian reinforcements of 1,000 heavily armed Catalan horsemen under the command of the King's son Stephen Dušan arrived, and the Serbs broke their word and attacked the Bulgarians." --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

   Done. --Gligan (talk) 10:31, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

9. "Michael Shishman's seal is depicted on the reverse of the Bulgarian 2 levs banknote, issued in 1999 and 2005." Single sentences shouldn't stand alone. To improve the flow of the article, either incorporate this into a relevant paragraph or expand on it. Do the same for the single sentence in the "family" section.

   Done (I have joined it with the previous paragraph because I don't think I can expand it).

10. What are the numbers for the in the family tree? An explanation should be included in the notes for unaware readers.

    They are put to make it easier to know from which wife are the children, if someone had more than one wifes. I am not sure whether in the note I have explained clearly and grammatically correct... Take a look at it.

    How about "The numbers designate which wife each child was born to."? Still probably not the best, but should work. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 01:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

    It is far better than my suggestion :) --Gligan (talk) 10:31, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

11. In the note section, add the conversion for the "2 km" figure.

    Done.

12. For the citations, no page number is given for citation 22 (Павлов).

    That is because the pages are not indicated in the source I have used.

Altogether, this article was informative on the topic and is well-sourced. Most of the above issues shouldn't be too difficult to address, but if you have any questions on them, please let me know. Good work on adding multiple free images, there seem to be no issues there (except for the requested revision at Wikimedia Commons of File:Bulgaria-Theodore Svetoslav.png). I have left the article on hold for seven days for the issues to be addressed. If they are fixed in this time, I will pass the article. If not, the article may be failed and can be renominated at WP:GAN. If necessary to address the above issues, and progress is being made, an extension may be provided. If you have any questions or when you are done, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 03:54, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the review. I think I have addressed the issues as well as I could. Regards, --Gligan (talk) 14:50, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

GA passed

Good job with addressing the above issues. I believe the article meets the GA criteria and have passed the article. I went through the article and corrected a few minor grammar issues that I overlooked in my first read-through. Please review my edits to ensure no errors were made. I've left the fourth issue above unstruck as that will likely be a point of contention for any further class upgrades, including FA. Continue to maintain the article to ensure it upholds its GA status.

Also, to anyone that is reading this review, please consider reviewing an article or two at WP:GAN to help with the very large backlog. Instructions can be found here. Each new reviewer that helps to review articles will help to reduce the time that articles wait to be reviewed. If you are new to reviewing and want to familiarize yourself with the process, study the GA criteria, look at other editors' reviews, and leave any questions you have at Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations if you need feedback while performing a review.

Keep up the good work, and I encourage you to continue to bring articles up to good article status. If anyone disagrees with this review, an alternate opinion can be sought at Good article reassessment. If you have any further questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talk • contrib) 00:03, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

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