Talk:Michael Klonsky

Factual disputes

Nearly every sentence in this submission is factually incorrect, from my birthplace (I was actually born in the Bronx, N.Y. on May 25, 1943), to the ludicrous accusations about purging gays and lesbians from SDS, to the laughable descriptions of my political history and development. Whoever wrote this obviously has their own political motives or has been fed information by Operation COINTELPRO. (Granpamike (talk) 11:50, 12 April 2008 (UTC))

Contributors should not remove cited material from this article. If there is a dispute in published, reliable literature about a fact, Wikipedia's verifiablility guidelines and guidelines on biographies of living persons are quite clear: Both facts should be discussed in the article, and citations to both sets of facts made. The article should then clearly point out that there is a dispute. It is not enough for a contributor to merely assert that "XYZ source is wrong"; verifiability is the key to Wikipedia, and contributors should provide alternative facts, cite them, and make the dispute over the facts very clear.

Cited articles say that Klonsky was born in California. Other contributors keep changing this to Brooklyn, New York. Changes must be verifiable. Currently, absent additional citations, Klonsky's place of birth is in dispute. - Tim1965 (talk) 16:39, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

• Contributors can remove cited material if it is in dispute. See below.

Errors in article

We have received an email from the subject VRTS ticket # 2008040310021682 (who also posts above) regarding numerous factual inaccuracies in the article. Actually, so much of it is inaccurate that I have reduced to a stub for a complete rework. The following is posted here by his permissions:

1. "Klonsky was born in California."  Not true. Born in New York. Small point, but it
throws into question the author's sources on everything else.
2. "Mike Klonsky helped organize the first chapter of Students for a Democratic
Society in the area" Not true. That was Mike Davis. I joined SDS long after the first
chapter was formed.
3. "While managing the L.A. office, Klonsky met Sue Eanet, whom he later married."
Not true. I met Sue Eanet in Chicago in 1967. She was working in the SDS national
office. She came to Los Angeles later that year.
4. "he was involved with community organizing among a poor Caucasians and Mexicans in
Silver Lake." Not true. I lived in Silver Lake for a time but did my community
organizing in the southeast community of Bell Gardens--which at the time had the
highest concentration of poor white (no such thing as the "Caucasian race" a term
discredited in Wikipedia) welfare recipients in the nation.
5. "During his community organizing, Klonsky began developing a proto-Marxist
ideology which emphasized community and worker organizing." Not true. I'm not sure
what "proto-Marxism" is or how the author knows how or when i began developing this
ideology. But the statement is obviously myth on its face. But in Wikipedia, you can
repeat anything about someone, especially if you can produce a citation afterward, no
matter what the source. I was never a "proto-Marxist."
6. "By June 1968, Klonsky was a leader among SDSers who were neither revolutionaries
nor Maoist followers of the Progressive Labor Party (PL) faction within SDS." Not
true. In June, 1968, I was the elected national secretary of SDS and not just the
leader of non-revolutionaries and non-Maoists. The split with Progressive Labor Party
happened later. They were neither "revolutionaries" nor "Maoists."
7. "He was paid $15 a week, and often moonlighted as a manual laborer to support his
wife and new child." Not true. My wife and I were each paid $30/week plus living
expenses, rent and a car." I didn't moonlight but raised money speaking at campuses
around the country and passing the hat. Small point, but again discredits the
author's sources.
8. "His politics became much more radical during this period. He rejected the theory
of the "new working class" developed by Greg Calvert and adopted by SDS years
earlier." Not true on its face. If I became a "proto-Marxist" during my community
organizing days, how could I become "more radical" during this period. I was also
quite interested in Calvert's new working class theories and still am to this day.
They were pretty "radical" for their time.
9. THIS IS A BIG ONE--"He was also accused of purging SDS of gay and lesbian staff
and members." Not true and a slander without any foundation. I never purged even one
staff members, gay, lesbian or otherwise. The reference is to a book, "The Politics
of Authenticity" which spread lies about many of us (especially SDS leader Bernardine
Dohrn) without any credible support. This was an obvious one. Trying to make me out
to be some kind of anti-gay bigot was a divisive trick used in Hoover's Operation
COINTELPRO. It's repeated elsewhere in the article. It's a McCarthyite tactic to say,
"he was accused of..." followed by the most repugnant lie.  How does one defend
themselves to their gay and lesbian friends and close relatives against that kind of
tabloid type rumor mongering?

So far I have shown how every sentence up to this  point is packed with lies,
distortions and misstated or intentionally misrepresented fact pertaining to my life
40 years ago. With more time, I could go on  (and will go on) to expose and document
most of the rest. For example (and this is another big one) the author writes that I
"supported the regime of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, Shah of Iran." This is an outrageous
lie. In dozens of articles and speeches I attacked the Shah and his U.S.-backed
puppet dictatorship.

Several of my Iranian comrades was jailed, tortured and murdered by the Shah's
regime. There is not one credible statement anywhere by me, supporting this dictator.
What the author and others like him, with their own political agendas have done, is
use China's state-to-state relationship with Iran to attack me and the organization
that I was in at the time, as being pro-Shah. I was neither a representative of China
nor a supporter of all of China's foreign policies at the time. State-to-state
relations certainly can't be equated with support of the Shah by an American radical.


All this only reveals the ill-intent here. These aren't just factual errors, but a
well-conceived attempt to misrepresent a portion of my life, to slander me as an
anti-gay bigot and a supporter of torturers and dictators. Anyone who knows me or who
reads my works, knows that my life's work represents quite the opposite.

Please tell me how we can rectify this problem. 

I think you can see why Mike Klonsky would be offended by these errors. Guy (Help!) 17:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Semi-protected

I have semiprotected this article due to continual re-addition of disputed material. I would remind the person concerned that the onus is on them to justify inclusion of disputed material. Guy (Help!) 08:49, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

ego-trip?

I must say, this guy Klonsky has my sympathy as far as the disputes about his factual life go. And political? One would think being a maoist (and even after Pol Pot) was bad enough? And his statement about the PLP as neither maoist nor revolutionary! Brings back the good old times! --Radh (talk) 08:27, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

This guy has added his poor father as innocent McCarthy victim, is this a perfect coming out as a red diaper baby?--Radh (talk) 18:24, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

The mention of his father in the article was not one of Klonsky's additions (though he did embellish that part with some editorialization recently) — I added it in this diff. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)