Talk:Manx cat

Various image problems

Unresolved

 – Image issues not taken care of entirely in over 4 years.

This article has come a long way from my first visit and subsequent edits to it. I don't wish to appear to be "tooting my own horn" or again, be accused of "trying to sell kittens" by adding a comment on this article. However, I feel I have something of value to add and would like to offer my years of experience as a CFA registered Manx breeder. Most everything I knew about editing and posting here I've forgotten, so please bear with me as I try to post a comment about this article. I think the picture's displayed in the article that represent the Manx cat could be more diverse. With all due respect, the cats pictured in the article seem to resemble more Japanese Bobtail cats, than Manx.

http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/japanese.html

Japanese Bobtail kittens are never born tailless, neither are they born with full tails. Their tails are clearly visible, composed of one or more curves, angles, or kinks or any combination thereof. The genetic factor that has created the Japanese Bobtail is completely different from the Manx. Unlike the Manx, the two breeds are not related in any way. Not only are their tails different, but their body types are both completely opposite.

Manx cats have varying tail lengths, but are best known for being completely tailless. I think examples of the varying tail lengths and breeds characteristics should be shown. I can provide as many pictures as needed to post to this article that represents what an actual Manx cat is known and described to look like.

http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/manx.html

The Manx tailless gene is dominant, kittens tails that inherit it can vary from a full tail, a short tail, a rise (known as a “rumpy riser”), or no tail (“rumpies”) at all. Aside from being tailless, the Manx is also known for its robust and rounded appearance. This breed is described as being drawn with a series of circles. It has a very round head and rounded cheeks that give it a jowly appearance; this is seen even more so in the male cat than in the female.

I'd like to point out for those who don't know, in the interest of education, Manx cats are best "known" for being tailess, not every tailless or semi tailed cat is a Manx cat. The breed is not based on a "look" or "act", although, these are found most endearing and desirable in the breed. Manx cats have origin to the Isle of Man, much like humans have origin to certain countries to claim that nationality. Could you imagine what the world would be like if everyone was told they were a nationality based on how they acted or looked?

Please feel free to visit my User page or contact me as needed for the picture's to post to this site. Karello 00:19, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Note: the lead image in the article as of that writing was File:Manx breed cat named Inkku.jpg.

If, as you say, you don't want to be accused of spamming, then stop promoting your website here. Per WP:REFACTOR, I've removed your advertising, but kept the rest of your post here since it raises legitimate issues with the article. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 21:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I have no expertise to question what breed of cat is pictured, but I did notice that most of the photos, including the main photo, show cats with at least some tail. If, as the article states, having no tail is the most common or at least most characteristic form of Manx, more of the photos (as well as the main photo) should reflect that. In short, more photos of no-tailed cats. 71.146.160.245 (talk) 21:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, the picture of the black cat on the door and the white one below seem to be labeled revesed. The black cat seems to have a shorter tail than the white cat. However, the black cat is labeled as a "stuby" while the white cat is labeled a "stumpy". The article is quite clear that a "stuby" is longer than a "stumpy". Pictures showing (very distinctly please) the various degrees of "taillessness" would be greatly appreciated. --DMG —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.203.109.205 (talk) 20:12, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I have removed the obvious bobtail pic. There are various other illustration issued raised here that need to be addressed, though, especially clear illustratoin of the tail types. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 21:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Re: Hunting

Unresolved

 – Significant aspect of the article not fully developed and sourced yet.

The lead mentions they are notable for being skilled hunters but doesn't say anything more about this. Out of all of the cats I've ever had, the Manx is, indeed, an incredible hunter, and I don't recall seeing this type of behavior with any other cat. They also seem to be friendlier than other breeds. In any case, this article could use some expansion. Viriditas (talk) 15:38, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

mine is like that to sometimes —Preceding unsigned comment added by Feral hydra (talk • contribs) 22:08, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Quite a bit more could be said on this (with reliable sources, not children's cat books), esp. given that Manx cats are so common outside of Mann now largely because they were preferred as ship's cats for their mousing abilities and were spread from port to port. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 21:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

"Stubbin" and Manx language

Resolved

 – Sourced in the article

"They are called stubbin in the Manx language." I'm skeptical. Manx is a branch of Gaelic. Stubbin seems like an English word that English-speakers would apply to a stub-tailed animal. —Tamfang (talk) 04:09, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

There is a Manx/English dialect which has a mixture of English and Manx Gaelic words and grammar, so "stubbin" could be a word used in the Isle of Man. However, I used to live on the island a good many years ago and never heard "stubbin" or "stubby" used. It was always either "rumpy" or "stumpy". I am not saying they aren't used nowadays or in other places. Dabbler (talk) 13:07, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

The report of that word actually dates to the 1800s at least[1]. Manx is a pretty mixed-up language, with a very large number of English loanwords and other English influences, so stubbin as a (formerly) common Manxism isn't incredible in any way. Manx is a nominally Goidelic language with an enormous Germanico-Romance overlay via English due to the Isle of Man having been conquered by England, in pretty much exactly the same way that English is nominally a Germanic language, with an enormous Graeco-Latinate overlay via Old French due to England having been conquered by Norman France. Anyway, I have Manx language books around (believe it or not), so I'll source it in the article. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 18:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Appeal for a good rumpy picture

Could someone who has/owns a good picture of a Manx rumpy please upload it for use as the main picture for the Info box. The Manx is best known for its tailless nature so a picture of one even with a short tail is misleading and distracting. I did check all the ones on file in Wikipedia/Wikimedia and unfortunately none of them are really good enough. Dabbler (talk) 13:07, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Definitely; the long-stubby in the main pic (as of this writing - still File:Manx breed cat named Inkku.jpg) doesn't even qualify as a proper Manx according to some of the breed standards. That, and it does look like a Japanese bobtail to me, as well; several others have pointed this out since (hard to believe) 2007. Anyway, I have a rumpy; I'll see if any of the pics I have of him so far are WP-worthy. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 10:43, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I've removed the bobtail pic and put a rumpy riser in there, but it is not a high-quality photo. Better a ho-hum placeholder that is correct than an incorrect pic. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 21:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Source on "Manx syndrome"

Someone pasted this into the "External links" section, but it isn't appropriate there (it's not a major resource about Manx cats, the subject of this article, but about a sub-sub-topic, a specific health issue in the health section):

• "Genetic welfare problems of companion animals - Manx Syndrome", at UFAW.org.uk

It should be checked for reliability, and if good should be used inline per WP:CITE as a source for specific facts. This page has massive reliable sourcing issues, and the last thing it needs is more trivia links; it's needs source citations. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 00:30, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Source to use for more sources

This source cites its own sources, and we can track down many of those it uses, e.g. on genetics, to improve this article: "ACF Breeding Policy for the Manx and Cymric Cat" (PDF). ACF.asn.au. Australian Cat Federation. Retrieved July 10, 2014.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  10:11, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

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stubbin

kayt cuttagh lit. 'bob-tailed cat' This is very well said I had my stubby tailed cats tested at the UCLA animal lab and the results came back as akin to Manx. Although the origin of the breed from the Isle of man cannot be denied the term Manx could be viewed as descriptive of most 'bob-tailed' breeds and probably should. https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Talk:Manx_cat&action=edit&section=new# — Preceding unsigned comment added by R Dailey0001 (talk • contribs) 17:59, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

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Stimpy

Stimpy from Ren & Stimpy is a manx cat 14.203.83.38 (talk) 22:00, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

If there's a reliable source for that, it could be added under "Fictional Manx cats". But you just asserting it is not a reliable source.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:00, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Potential plagiarism

Certain parts of the history section are word for word copies of the GCCF article on the Manx cat. The only reason I say potential is because this content dates back to at least 10 years whilst the GCCF article only appears in 2014 to the best of my ability searching the wayback machine. https://web.archive.org/web/20141031024514/http://www.gccfcats.org/breeds/manx.html

I'm not sure whether the GCCF plagiarised Wikipedia (somewhat unlikely) or the content is plagiarised from the GCCF. It could also be the GCCF took that content from the British Manx Cat Club and so did the original editor for those claims.

Seeing if the content was added by one or different editors would also help resolve the issue as it's highly unlikely for two different users to have plagiarised different parts of the same website. I'll check this myself tomorrow if no one else has done so. Traumnovelle (talk) 09:47, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@SMcCandlish: did work on this article, perhaps he would know? SilverTiger12 (talk) 19:29, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

After checking it seems both of these claims were inserted by him. The passage about Noah was added in 2012 whilst the claim about Lamamarkian folklore was added in 2015.

Seems the GCCF may have just plagiarised the Wikipedia article. Traumnovelle (talk) 23:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I'll really have to dig deep in the memory cells on this one, but I would not copy directly from an external source without either quoting it, or re-using public-domain material and and noting that I was doing so, but even with old sources I just quote-mark or block quote them (do it all the time in tartan and Highland dress articles and such).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:27, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

The GCCF Internet Archive link above just goes to a picture page. Their current webpage on this is here, and the wording in question is found in the "History" expandable section. It is definitely just copy-pasted from us. Here are diffs of edits I did in relation to this material on our site [2][3], and you can see that I'm adding text organically, not a copy-paste from something. Their version matches ours really, really closely, including my use of "on their home island", which is very distinctive, and my choice of the word "fanciful" (which is pushing the limits of MOS:TONE, but I do remember picking it on purpose as appropriate for this specific context).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  23:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

I copied the wrong link for the GCCF but they did have a page with the information you posted. Seems they simply copied Wikipedia for that article so this can be closed/resolved. Traumnovelle (talk) 00:33, 16 January 2024 (UTC)