Talk:MV Rhosus

the load being the cause of the explosion is still not confirmed. the article states it as a fact, I don't agree with that. --213.55.255.170 talk‎ at 14:35, 6 August 2020‎.

IDONTLIKEIT. Sorry. --100.6.86.58 ((talk)) 18:55, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

Final fate of Rhosus

It's true the ship's captain stated that the ship sank, but he didn't offer further details (eg where exactly? when exactly?) so I think until we have more concrete proof that it really sank (e.g. photos or videos emerging of it sinking, or official records of the sinking, or divers finding a wreck) I think we should assume there is a possibility it didn't sink, and may still be out there somewhere. If it sank right there where it was impounded, you would think some members of the public would have seen or recorded a large ship like this sinking? And it should be fairly easy to find the wreckage if it sank right there in the harbor. If officials tugged it out to sea and let it sink then surely there'll likewise be some sort of official records of this event. 102.132.212.174 (talk) 00:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

*Edit* To be clear, I'm not suggesting changing the article now - the wording is OK to me. I'm just saying let's keep this in mind, and see what new information emerges over time. 102.132.212.174 (talk) 00:03, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

There's an interesting quote in this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/captain-astonished-that-his-ship-delivered-beirut-explosive/2020/08/06/2ad8f824-d825-11ea-a788-2ce86ce81129_story.html ... "Charalambos Manoli, the Cypriot businessman who owned the ship before Grechushkin bought it, claims the vessel remained docked in Beirut and was destroyed in the blast on Tuesday; he says he saw the wreckage in the photos of the destroyed port" (!) 102.132.212.174 (talk) 00:38, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Might Charalambos Manoli be talking about the ship closest to camera in this first Getty Images photo here? https://www.faragency.bg/news/15967207433137/balgariya-nyama-vrazka-s-koraba-i-tovara-prichinili-vzriva-v-beyrut ... a quick check of the size on Google Maps shows it seems around same length to me, and the colors and structures look at a glance to match the other photos of Rhosus. And it happens to be right by the warehouses involved in the destruction. If anyone can examine this in more detail please do? 102.132.212.174 (talk) 01:03, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Original research: Google Earth shows Rhosus moored by the wavebreaker on the other side of the harbour basin between "3.2014.5" and "9.2017.12". The vessel is fairly easy to identify based on e.g. main dimensions, round bow, and the single port side lifeboat. Based on low-resolution Sentinel-2 photographs, the vessel capsized over starboard side and sank with its mooring lines still attached in mid- to late-February 2018; the first Google Earth timestamp showing the wreck is "23.2018.3" and it is visible in all subsequent satellite photographs just below the surface. This would seem to confirm the captain's statement. As for the vessel that was closest to the blast and literally lifted on the quayside, it had also been in the port for years and at the same location since at least "5.2016.11". However, is too small and of different configuration. Tupsumato (talk) 05:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tupsumato: it looks like you posted about your research around the same time i stumbled upon euronews reporting that the records of lloyd's list stated that it sank on the same month that you had concluded! i've added euronews' conclusion to the article, since it was no longer original research, though i've left out your detail. dying (talk) 06:35, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

This should be reflected also in the infobox as well as using past tense when describing the ship. Tupsumato (talk) 06:54, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

sounds good, will update the article to reflect this. dying (talk) 07:10, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Already did it. Tupsumato (talk) 07:12, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

just noticed that right after my last comment. thanks! dying (talk) 07:13, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tupsumato: You didn't read my post correctly, I never said the small ship that got blown onto the quayside, duh, that's obviously far too small. I said closest to the CAMERA and I measured that ship in Google maps and it came out 86m - the same size as Rhosus. I'm not necessarily disputing whether it sank - I don't know - but is it possible to post a link to Google Maps showing the wreckage? I never saw the wreckage there. 102.132.212.174 (talk) 13:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry for misunderstanding your post - it was not intentional. As of the wreck of Rhosus, you can see it here. The rope disappearing underwater is the bow mooring line. Google Earth (Pro) has older photographs which show the wreck more clearly (23.2018.3 is the best; afterwards is more or less like as shown in Google Maps). Tupsumato (talk) 13:11, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Bing Maps has an older picture of Rhosus still afloat. The vessel was later moved further out to the location where it eventually sank. Tupsumato (talk) 13:14, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tupsumato: Thanks, that is very helpful. I see the mooring line and I can see there is something under the water there the visible part measures about 70m-ish to me and does look like it could well be the wreck. I'm also looking at it in detail now in the Google Earth Pro application under View / Historical imagery and it does confirm that that could be the Rhosus - as in all imagery prior to date 1/16/2015 there are no signs of any underwater structures there. Rhosus seems to appear in that spot first on 8/16/2015 historical imagery. Last standing there 12/9/2017, then the next one is 3/23/2018 (23 Mar 2018) that does look like it could a sunken ship in that exactly spot - and as there are no other signs of prior underwater structure there, that may well be Rhosus - that corroborates the Feb 2018 date. Pity if it truly sank as there might have still been evidence (eg documentation) on that ship of the ship's activities, now that will be destroyed. 102.132.212.174 (talk) 16:06, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Just a heads up guys, I think I found our ship. 170.199.250.52 (talk) 02:23, 11 August 2020 (UTC) Google Maps

For the record, regarding the ships seen in this photo, the nearest ship is MERO STAR (IMO 8321682) [1], and to the right RAOUF-H (IMO 8325535)[2]. Source [3] Davidships (talk) 23:20, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• The MV Rhosus.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

teto shipping limited

various sources have been reporting that teto shipping limited was the owner of the ship when it was abandoned, and although i have found sources stating that igor grechushkin owned teto shipping, i do not know if he was the sole owner. however, i have learned that the company is registered in the marshall islands, and that they have a corporate entity search engine online here. a search for the corporation did not give me the ownership breakdown, but it did give me some interesting information about the company. i've reproduced the results below.

Entity Number:	54842
Entity Name:	TETO SHIPPING LIMITED
Entity Type:	Corporation
Entity Status:	Annulled
Existence Date:	11-MAY-2012
Annulment Date:	11-SEP-2014

dying (talk) 07:42, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

Heavy machinery

The heavy machinery was stacked on top of the doors to the cargo space containing the ammonium nitrate, causing the doors to buckle and damaging the ship. I suspect that this, sourced to a Ukrainian seaman, has suffered in translation and it really means hatch covers. Indeed, in the Reuters source, the seaman goes on "The ship was old and the cover of the hold bent...." Anyone seen that interview in the original Russian or Ukrainian? Davidships (talk) 00:12, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

that is a good point. however, the reuters source appears to attribute that statement by the boatswain to a phone interview, and since a phone interview with the captain mentioned earlier was stated to be directly with reuters, it is likely that the boatswain's phone interview was also directly with reuters, making that article perhaps the most direct source of the statement. dying (talk) 00:28, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

it looks like you are correct. when the captain spoke to the bbc, he was quoted as saying: "The ship's hatches buckled. They were rusty, old. So we couldn't take it. I refused". dying (talk) 02:40, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

That's good, and an A1 source - I'll leave the updating to you. (I had been thinking that Reuters may have distributed their press piece, apparently written by a Russian speaker, in Russian/Ukrainian also.) Thank you, Dying, for building this article, and as well as Tupsumato and others for your continued development. Davidships (talk) 12:13, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

oh, i admittedly had not thought of the possibility of reuters releasing a russian or ukrainian version as well. i'm not sure why i hadn't, and it's a rather embarrassing oversight, so thank you for explaining your reasoning to me.

apparently, your hunch was correct, and reuters does have a russian article as well. in it, reuters mentioned how the crew placed the machines "на крышки трюма", which google translate tells me means "on the lids of the hold". (google translate also tells me "крышки" by itself means "covers".) the boatswain said "крышки прогибались" or "the lids sagged", so he apparently didn't mention a hatch either. for reference, according to wiktionary, hatch in russian is люк. perhaps, in russian, the cover covers the container (the hold), while in english, the cover covers the hole (the hatch).

by the way, Kbahey provided a source that included a video of bbc's interview with the captain, so if someone more fluent in russian that i am wants to confirm the bbc's translation, he talks about it around 1:09 into the video. all i can decently make out is "бейрут".

also, thank you for your contributions to the article as well, Davidships! i've noticed that some of your additions i would have never been able to figure out myself. dying (talk) 12:32, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Ship sank in 2018, confirmed

The New York Times has confirmed that the ship sank in 2018, and they have posted pictures of the wreckage. This is documented in the article now. I have removed the category for "missing ships", and added "Maritime incidents in 2018" and "Shipwrecks in the Mediterranean". (Before its destruction, the Port of Beirut was part of the Mediterranean Sea) Juneau Mike (talk) 14:40, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

ownership

this article appears to show that determining the history of ownership may be even messier than it first appeared. if true, normally reliable sources may not be as reliable as expected.

also, that article apparently implies that briarwood corp and interfleet shipmanagement are closely related as they share the same address, and states that interfleet shipmanagement is based out of burgas, bulgaria, and owned by nikolay petrov hristov.

i also found a site that stated that interfleet shipmanagement limited, registered in cyprus, has charalambos manoli listed as director. the company can also be found directly on the government's database here. dying (talk) 13:57, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

@Dying: "even messier" full ACK. It is most complicated and problematic to understand. Let us track together what we can find. I search several hour to regroup the infos below. Sorrowly the small details are spread in lots of sources. As far as I have seen:

• Changes of ownership
  • 1986 IMO 8630344 build by first Owner Tokuoka Shipbuilding, named "Daifuku Maru No. 8", since oct. 1968 used as Ship for Dredging
  • 2002 sold to Nishi Nippon Kaiyo
  • 2002 sold to unknown korean Owner, new Name Seokjung No. 505
  • 2005 sold to HK Zheng Long Shipping Co., new Name Zheng Long 5
  • 2005 sold to Rui Hua HK Shipping Co.
  • 2007 sold to Star International Shipping Group, new Name New Legend Glory
  • 2008 sold to Briarwood Corp., new Name Rhosus, 2009 enlongated and modificated as freight-carrier

• Briarwood Corp. based in Panama? [4]
• Briarwood Corp. based in Burgas, company owned by Nikolay Petrov Hristov
  • Global Integrated Shipping Information System (GISIS) identifies Briarwood Corp as the owner.
  • "Briarwood's address is listed as the "care of Interfleet Shipmanagement" in Burgas. It has been the ship's registered owner since 2008. Interfleet has been the manager since 2009."[5]
• INTERFLEET SHIPMANAGEMENT EOOD based in Burgas (also Bourgas),[6] owned by Nikolay Petrov Hristov, never had interconnection with ship Rhosus, in Burgas the company has been liquidated [7]
  • Nikolay Hristov (bulgarian, born 1982) is still in business. Info [8]
• INTERFLEET SHIPMANAGEMENT LTD, based in Limassol,[9] owned by Manoli Charalambos Cyprus, registered in Cyprus with Registration Number ΗΕ 191676. It was registered on 08 Feb 2007 and is still existing [10] [11]
  • Manoli Charalambos is still noted in Business MELITO MARITIME COMPANY LIMITED + Geoship Company SRL + CARMIN BUSINESS INC.
• Teto Shipping is absent from Equasis, the GISIS, Clarksons Shipping Intelligence Network and VesselsValue.[12] Teto Shipping noted in Sevilla as registered by "Maritime Lloyd ‐ Georgia" No. 5675364
  • Igor Grechushkin "He bought the Rhosus for €300,000 in Cyprus, which was €50,000 less than its scrap value at the time, it was claimed. ...The report claimed ‘it was a single-use ship for a single journey’, suggesting this was from Batumi in Georgia to Lebanon – and no further."[13] Rhosus changed 2012 from Manoli Charalambos to Igor Grechushkin reported by Prokoshev, "Grechushkin, who was paid $1 million to transport the dangerous cargo from Georgia to Mozambique, the former captain said." [14] It was the first time Grechushkin operated a ship — obviously he had problems to manage this business.
  • Biography with more company relationships and strange storys (privat website) Igor Grechushkin

• "parismou.org" information systems of the Paris and Mediterranean port State control memoranda can be traced [15] "Moldova is on a so-called blacklist issued by Paris MoU, an international naval organisation which monitors and regulates the naval traffic of the European coastal states and the North Atlantic basin from North America to Europe."[16]
  • inspection in Cyprus on 18.05.2012 RHOSUS, flag Moldova, manager (ISM company) Interfleet Shipmanagement EOOD parismou.org 3 days detention, released 2012‐5‐5 (page 4 of 50)
  • inspection in Varna on 21.08.2012 RHOSUS, flag Moldova, manager (ISM company) Teto Shipping
  • inspection in Lebanon on 08.06.2013 RHOSUS, flag Moldova, manager (ISM company) Teto Shipping
  • inspection in Sevilla on 28/07/2013 RHOSUS, flag Moldavia, Teto Shipping Ltd. "OMI-Compania 5675364"??? mitma.gob.es Jul 2013 + parismou.org 14 day detention, released 2013‐8‐11 (page 7 of 33)saved in archive.org

• Numerous changes of flags and homeports
  • Japan, Korea, Belzie, Panama, Georgia, Moldovia
  • the last three flags Panama, Georgia, Moldovia match to the ownership of Briarwood
  • last know homeport is Giurgiulești (commune in the Cahul District of Moldova), Batumi was labeled on the ship as homeport on prior pictures[17]
  • "The Moldovan authorities confirmed to BIRN on Wednesday that the Rhosus was sailing under a Moldovan flag until it docked in Beirut, where its cargo license was eventually revoked. ... Zaharia said that the Moldovan company that acted for the foreign owner in the registration process was Geoship Company SRL, which was owned according to the Moldovan company register by Cypriot citizen Manoli Charalambos, the director of Acheon Akti Navigation from Limassol in Cyprus. "[18]
  • "The problem with the Interfleet Ship Management story is that the proprietor, Nikolay Hristov, claims that although he registered the company in Bulgaria, he never used it for anything, and didn’t own Rhosus. The Bulgarian media’s reporting on this has pointed out that it’s not uncommon for third parties to take advantage of such paper companies to provide ships with fake documentation, even without the registered proprietor’s knowledge."[19]

• Cargo information
  • the cargo was loaded 23. Sept. 2013 in Batumi, the landing bill is signed by Abakumov Vyacheslav and dated 23/9/2013 and describes detailed information [20]
  • "The cargo, packaged in large white sacks, was worth around $700,000 at 2013 prices, according to an industry source."[21]

• Changes / last Crews 2013
  • The captain Abakumov Vyacheslav signed the lading bill and sailed 23. Sept. 2013 with crew from Batumi till Tuzla, where Vyacheslav and crew left the vessel.
  • "Boris Prokoshev eventually took charge of the vessel when it made a stop in Tuzla, Turkey."[22] "the ship stopped in Turkey to switch masters (captains). This was variously reported as due to the original master not being paid, or the owner wanting to complete the transaction with crewmembers who would keep silent (implicitly to violate rules), or both."[23]
  • Captain Boris Prokoshev and Crew were arrested and left Beirut without getting paid (after some months arrest)[24][25] "stuck on the ship for 11 months, with food and other supplies running low."washingtonpost.com

• Stations / last journey
  • On 23/9/2013, m/v Rhosus, flying the Moldovian flag, sailed from Batumi Port,[26]
  • Citation: "The Moldova-flagged vessel had been en route from Batumi to Mozambique, departing on 27 July 2013 according to IHS Markit AISLive data, reportedly carrying the chemical – a constituent of fertiliser and some explosives. The vessel made several stops along the voyage, according to the historical AIS data, first anchored off Zeytinburnu, Turkey, on 1 October, then shifting to anchorage off Tuzla, Turkey, a major ship repair port, on 3 October. The vessel then continued the journey on 16 October, stopping and anchoring off Piraeus, Greece, on 21 October, before departing on 14 November and arriving at Beirut on 20 November. There, it was arrested by port authorities. ... According to IHS Markit AISLive data, Rhosus was first berthed at Berth 14, Dock 4, before shifting to Berth 11, Dock 3, which is just opposite the blast site."safeatsea.net
  • "arrived in Athens, food and other goods had to be returned to suppliers because the owner said he couldn’t afford to pay for them. The ship spent four weeks there while the owner hunted for additional cargo to pay transit fees through the Suez Canal."[27]
  • "The Rhosus set sail for Beirut on 15 November and arrived, in the captain’s estimation, approximately four days later. "[28]
  • last movements in Beirut habour reported from NYTimes
  • "never been notified of the operation of a ship containing 2,750 tonnes of ammonium nitrate destined for Mozambique"[29]

• Summarys:
  • centerforsecuritypolicy.org has released a comprehensive report: Lebanon – What happened?
  • "Beirut blast: The Russian angle lurking in the odd 2013 shipment of ammonium nitrate" is report regard the backgrounds with various focus

• open Questions

• unpaid bills of whom? or which company? "said to have been detained by Lebanese authorities in 2013 over $100,000 in unpaid bills"[30]
  • also "Various creditors came forward with claims against her."[31]
  • also "Port authorities impounded the Rhosus in December 2013 by judicial order 2013/1031 due to outstanding debts owed to two companies that filed claims in Beirut courts, the state security report showed."[32]
• "Interfleet has been the manager since 2009" which company? Burgas Interfleet EOOD or Limasol Interfleet LTD? which (official/inoffcial) function? f.e. Charterer/Manager/Owner?

The only fact the never changed is the registration number IMO 8630344

Quite clear that some connections hardly match. "Nikolay Petrov Hristov told Bulgarian press the connection was the result of forged documents."

It looks like Teto / Igor Grechushkin finally owned the ship. In some sources Teto was named as Charterer; in some sources as Manager; in other sources as the Owner. Teto could not change the registration because the company had no GISIS-Reference. "The last owner of m / c RHOSUS – Teto Shipping, has not updated the information in the system, for this reason the last address is published in Burgas."[33] So they left the old entry as they did with the last Flag/Homeport-Registration in GISIS. Nevertheless Teto was regarded as registered owner in the notes of parismou.org.

Well I hope some of the infos are helpful. Pls. keep in mind the question of Hanlon's razor ;-) Regards --80.187.96.131 (talk) 14:43, 13 August 2020 (UTC)