Talk:Lohana/Archive 2
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Lohana and Jats are different castes
@M.Bitton Lohanas and Jats are different caste. This is academic reference. Read footnote 151, I request admin to correct it in main page and remove Jat word from the main article. [1] 49.43.33.176 (talk) 12:47, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
- Lohanas are Neither Rajput nor baniyas not even Jats and Brahmins and also Lohanas have nothing to do with raghuvanshi or yaduvanshi they Lohanas are connected to Lohani Pathans Kakar Pathans.. Sagar Raithatha (talk) 08:01, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
Lohana as Kshatriya, debates
Lohana are said to have more than 84 surnames like Jasani, Ratnani, Mirani, Kewalramani, Chag (see list[1]) but they commonly use Thakkar as their common surname. Why none of these surnames have been noted by any British Gazetteer or other historian as belonging to Kshatriya caste like other surnames of Chauhan, Rathor, Parmar, which also claim their origin from vedic times. Like Gohil and others claim descent from Rama and Yadav from Krishna. Why not a single Lohana surname is classified in Kshatriya group by any historian nor even Todd who wrote about 36 royal races of Chhatis Rajkul mentions about Lohana or Thakkar ?????? Jethwarp (talk) 07:19, 7 April 2011 (UTC) lohana are oldest kshatriya older than chandravanshi so it is possible dif. between surnames.forfather of maharana pratap was come from lahore,lohrana dynesty& jaychand rathore's 84 sardar's are called now marvadi thakker &some surname also match.&sachdev,thakral many surname match with panjabi& Uttarpradesh's thakur suryavanshi . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.47.117.84 (talk) 17:27, 29 June 2011 (UTC) Cannolis (talk) 05:38, 23 August 2023 (UTC)
- No Baru are not Lohanas... There's no Baru surname in Lohana Sagar Raithatha (talk) 20:34, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 8 September 2023
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i want to add a cast in gujrati lohana which is "SONGHELA". Songhela is a Gujrati Lohana Cast. Songhela cast is not Available, so please add SONGHELA cat in gujrati lohana. THANK YOUU Yash thakkar01 (talk) 09:11, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 10:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)- no Songhelas are not our Lohanas they have nothing to do with us please stop adding fake Surnames to our community.. Sagar Raithatha (talk) 11:59, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2023
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Pls add the surname Raichura in Lohana Gujarati Castes JayRaichura1991 (talk) 19:42, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 19:50, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
Add surname as Manglani in Sindhi Bhaibandh
Add surname 'Manglani' in Sindhi Bhaibandh as no seperate section of Sindhi sahiti is mentioned.
There are three categories of sindhis namely amil, sahiti and bhaibandh.
I talked to a pandit ji of Sindh, he told me that now sahiti people have been merged into Sindhi Bhaibandh. Drharishjmanglani (talk) 14:18, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
- Needs reliable sources. Drmies (talk) 14:39, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
- http://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Sindhis
- You may please search 'Manglani'
- It is showing under the head of Sindhi Amil Lohana.
- If this link is valid then atleast add 'Manglani' in the same head of Bhaibandh.
- It is required as the surname is not indicated under any head.
- Plz do needful Drharishjmanglani (talk) 15:21, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
- Yes Manglani Hirani Udvani Advani Manchandani and many others are Lohanas Sagar Raithatha (talk) 13:40, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
January
@Gotitbro Even by ignoring if the Muslim convert groups of this social group are counted or not, are you familiar with the existence of Sindhi Hindus in Pakistan? Most of them are Lohanas as clearly stated so in the article, which makes the "Indian" label undue. Codenamewolf (talk) 19:29, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- That is not stated anywhere in the article and most Sindhi Hindus in Pakistan are not Lohanas (most of them are from other lower caste groups [reading from Schaflechner in the biblio]), the vast majority having migrated to India pre and post-partition. The description as such would also still not fall under WP:UNDUE, anyhow I will edit the lead to accomodate the different regions (it appears from Schaflechner that a few Lohanas still remain in Pakistan). Gotitbro (talk) 19:46, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- You can still come across many carrying the surnames listed here in urban areas of Sindh atleast, (I know one irl). Additionally, communities of Muslim convert groups (Dawoodi Bohras, Memons) also exist. Anyways, the current lead seems sufficient Codenamewolf (talk) 20:20, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Sources treat the Bohras and Memons communities separately and Lohanas are only one of the theoritical origins of those groups (the communities themselves do not necessarily ascribe their origins as such). About Lohanas in urban Sindh, yes those are likely from the remaining populace that did not migrate (also even post-partition quite a few upper-caste Hindu groups did remain in rural (Thar Desert) Sindh but most of them also migrated to India following the 1965 war: see Hasan and Raza). Gotitbro (talk) 20:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- In that case, adjusting the lead to look more like the Khatri article would make sense Codenamewolf (talk) 21:56, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Bohras are not Lohanas..while Sunni Memons Shia Ismaili Khwaja and Miakhels are Muslim Lohanas.. Sagar Raithatha (talk) 06:33, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Sources treat the Bohras and Memons communities separately and Lohanas are only one of the theoritical origins of those groups (the communities themselves do not necessarily ascribe their origins as such). About Lohanas in urban Sindh, yes those are likely from the remaining populace that did not migrate (also even post-partition quite a few upper-caste Hindu groups did remain in rural (Thar Desert) Sindh but most of them also migrated to India following the 1965 war: see Hasan and Raza). Gotitbro (talk) 20:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- You can still come across many carrying the surnames listed here in urban areas of Sindh atleast, (I know one irl). Additionally, communities of Muslim convert groups (Dawoodi Bohras, Memons) also exist. Anyways, the current lead seems sufficient Codenamewolf (talk) 20:20, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2024
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The Lohanas claimare divided into many separate cultural groups as a result of centuries apart in different regions. Thus there are significant todifferences bebetween the descendantsculture, language, professions and societies of LavaGujarati the son ofLohanas, Sindhi Lohanas, and to descend from the RaghuvamshaKutchi dynastyLohanas.
Whereas some claim brahminical lineage in chaurishi gotra Chaurasia community from northern Indian which claim Brahmin lineage from saint chaurishi and have some surnames in common [1] The Lohanas are divided into many separate cultural groups as a result of centuries apart in different regions. Thus there are significant differences between the culture, language, professions and societies of Gujarati Lohanas, Sindhi Lohanas, and Kutchi Lohanas. 111.125.240.79 (talk) 10:01, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.GrayStormTalk Contributions 15:57, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- Please don't spread disinformation without any knowledge no one from Lohana community has made such claims.
- Lohanas have nothing to do with Brahmin, Rajput, Vaishya Shudra and Lava-Gujarati Chaurasia etc etc.
- Historically and Genetically Lohanas have no connection with them.
- Most importantly There is nothing called "Gujarati Lohana community"
- Lohanas who are also called Arora Khatri in Punjab is Lahori-Sindhi community from Lahore Sindh Baluchistan in Short Lohanas are immigrants in Gujarat Just like Parsi Irani Community in Gujarat.
- Also Lohana is an independent Mercentile Community Just Like Parsi and Punjabi Khatri.
- Among Muslims Sunni Memons, Miakhels, and Ismaili Khwaja are Muslim Lohanas.
- Note - Baniya, Vaniya, Gujarati vaishnav, Vanik, Jain, Modh, Ghanchi, Soni, Baniya, Agarwal, maheshwari etc etc are DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES.
- also there's nothing called "Gujarati Lohana" Sagar Raithatha (talk) 13:33, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ Lachaier, Pierre. "Cérémonies D'hommage à Sarasvatī Et Aides à L'éducation Chez Les Lohāṇā De Pune." Bulletin De L'École Française D'Extrême-Orient 94 (2007): 27-58. Accessed November 2, 2020. http://www.jstor.org/stable/43733204.
Lohanas Are Pashtun Lohanis ( Tarukhel Miakhel Pavindah)
"Image 234 of A dictionary of the Pathan tribes on the north-west frontier of India, | Library of Congress" https://www.loc.gov/resource/gdclccn.02013572/?sp=234&st=text&r=-0.089,0.162,1.235,1.573,0 2409:40C1:103D:F873:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 09:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Regarding sources heavily/mainly relying on Burton
It is more suitable to use better sources for sensitive caste related topics. The colonial administrator Burton is considered highly unreliable especially regarding Sindhi Hindus. He considered Sindhi Hindus & Muslims different races. If you want to read in detail regarding his unreliability on Sindhi Hindus & Sindh related stuff, then check out these academic sources:
1. Shahani, U. (2022). Following Richard Burton: Religious Identity and Difference in Colonial Sindh. Philological Encounters, 7(1-2), 95-128
2. Mairs, R. (2023). Legacies of Alexander in Colonial Sindh: Richard Francis Burton and a “Greek Pot” at Sehwan. Journal of Sindhi Studies, 3(2), 1-22 Sir Calculus (talk) 07:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2023
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Addition of a missing surname in the Gujarati Lohana surnames list in the table. Missing surname: Lukka 43.249.228.9 (talk) 20:18, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ayakanaa ( t · c ) 03:23, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
- Sources:
- (1) Mention of 'Lukka' at no. 161 in the list of Lohana surnames - https://rooplakhani.blogspot.com/2016/01/few-facts-about-gujrati-caste-lohana.html
- (2) President of 'Shree Lohana Mahajan Adityana' is 'Shri Laxmidas L. Lukka'. https://lohanamahaparishad.org/user/Mahajan.aspx
- (3) Mention of people with surname Lukka in 'Madhyastha Samiti' of 'SHREE LOHANA MAHAPARISHAD' is is as follows:
- MMS ID: Sau-1 / 27 - Shri Jayantilal Laxmidas Lukka
- MMS ID: Sau-2 / 34 - Shri Bhadreshkumar Krushnadas Lukka
- https://lohanamahaparishad.org/user/Madhyastha.aspx
- (4) Mention of 3 people with Lukka surname in the Lohana population page of 'Shree Lohana Samaj Bhayandar':
- No. 83 - Lukka Ramesh Jamnadas
- No. 112 - Lukka Ramniklal Chaganlal
- No. 314 - Lukka Jayantilal Nathalal
- (5) Mention of 'Lukka' surname in https://qualityatquality.blogspot.com/2016/05/surname-in-lohana-cast.html Nisargl (talk) 15:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- no.... there's no lukka surname in Lohana community.... Lukka are Gujarati vaishnav vaniya 103.250.161.163 (talk) 21:04, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 June 2024
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Add "Panchamatiya" / "Panchmatiya" as a surname in Gujrati Lohana Panchmatiya kutumb mandir is located in Jamkhambhaliya, Gujrat PrateshP (talk) 09:01, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 14:55, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
Punjabi Khatri Bawanjai Lohana Arora are One family ?
From Dna/Genetics to looks,from History geography to culture they have a lot in common. It appears that Punjabi Khatris Bawanjai Lohana Arora and Bhatiya are from the same family 103.228.145.108 (talk) 10:40, 7 June 2024 (UTC)