Talk:List of tropical cyclones near the Equator

Merge/redirect?

I don't think this topic is encyclopediac enough for an article. Firstly, although the sourcing is fine for the WPAC storms, it'd be near impossible to get storms within 5 N and S in other basins, without resorting to simply listing the best track, which is borderline WP:OR. Storms that close to the equator aren't as meteorologically significant as the strongest storms, nor are they as inherently important to society as storms with devastating impacts. Right now, storms near the equator are mentioned here. I think that little section could be expanded slightly, perhaps to include Vamei, but I don't think we need this whole list. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:03, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

• I feel like this article should just be flat out deleted. There is no purpose for it to exist aside from pure interest stemming from Typhoon Bopha. The vast majority of this article would likely have to be made from OR by looking at tracks and judging from there. Cyclonebiskit (talk) 04:32, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
• I agree that this should be deleted as it only has tropical cyclones from the North West Pacific Basin. There are only 3 storms that are extremely notable in this region and one of them is not even on the list: The 3 notable storms in this region are Vamei: (Closest Formation to the Equator) Bopha: (Strongest storm less then 5 degrees from the equator) and Cyclone Agni: (Closest Tropical Cyclone to the Equator). All these would be better suited for the list of Tropical Cyclone Records with their extreme notability at low latitudes. Playerstroke (talk) 03:39, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
• Yes, I also agree that it should be deleted, but it appears that Angi, Bopha, and Vamei (as Playerstroke said above) should be included in List of tropical cyclone records because of their notability. United States Man (talk) 14:15, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
• I agree that this article should be deleted (merged/redirected), as there are only a very few entries, with most coming from one TC basin. Also, given the definition of what constitutes a near-equatorial tropical cyclone, it is near impossible that one will ever occur. Is there a WMO standard for near-equatorial? Also, I see mainly best track archives used as references and no reliable secondary sources calling Storm X, Y, or Z near-equatorial, which, as noted above, makes this article borderline OR.

JMA Tropical Depression forms at 1.3°N

Hello. According to the JMA, a tropical depression formed at 1.5°N. I am tempted to add that depression into the list on this page, but since the JTWC has not initiated advisories on it, I feel it may be too premature of me to do so. Any input on this issue would be appreciated. Thank you.

Hurricane Andrew (444) 22:27, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

It shouldn't matter that the JTWC haven't initiated advisories on the system, since the JMA is the official warning centre for the region and is on full advisories.Jason Rees (talk) 23:21, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Equator crosser?

According to the NOAA track file for JMA Tropical Depression 01 went from 0.1°S to 0.3°N. This means that the storm crossed the equator and thus, the closest tropical cyclone to the equator on record. How do we mention this in the article? Do we just put 0.0° in the minimum latitude box? RandomInfinity17 (talk - contributions) 17:09, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

We had a similar case in the Indian Ocean in 2004, which was the Cyclone Agni when it also hovered around the equator at a tropical disturbance before strengthening to tropical cyclone category at 1.5 north latitude. Bóng Ma ^{- Talk} 15:13, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Improvement discussion

Hey there, I saw you editing the aforementioned list (and I should probably ping @Undescribed: so what do you think the list needs to get it to featured list status? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:17, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink: Well I would say that in order to get it to featured list status it should probably have a more comprehensive intro? Perhaps we could explain a little bit more why tropical cyclones typically dont form near the equator? I mean it doesnt have to be super long because this is a list article, and it already talks about it a bit now. Also, what if we added a brief description for each storm on the list? Explaining any notable details about that particular storm in a separate column? With reliable citations of course. This seems like a good way to get it to featured status, right? Undescribed (talk) 01:43, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, that would be an interesting topic. Vamei, Agni, and Pali are already good articles. If Typhoon Alice (1979) became a good article and the list was featured, then it would be eligible to be a good topic. I agree with your notes about how explaining each storm. These are some of the most unusual examples of tropical cyclogenesis, and goes against what most people are taught about tropical cyclones, that the Coriolis effect is stronger away from the equator. Maybe some background on tropical cyclogenesis in general? Since there are only twelve entries, I agree that each entry could have a description, almost the level of depth you'd have in a typical season article, particularly since a few of them affected land in unusual areas. There's always the option of expanding out to 5º for the storms that formed between 3 and 5º. Or, if there aren't that many more storms, maybe just expand the list to 5º? That's a more round number than 3, which feels a bit arbitrary. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:37, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

@Hurricanehink and Undescribed: I'm not well versed into the process of graduating lists and articles to featured status, so I'm not sure if such trivial list could ever achieve it in the first place. But IMO, one topic that could be focused there would be about the mechanisms that led to the formation of each system. Some of them, like westerly wind bursts and Madden–Julian oscillation seem to be recurrent on leading to these oddities. ABC paulista (talk) 02:45, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

"So I'm not sure if such trivial list could ever achieve it in the first place" - well that seems to be the operative point of discussion. I moved this from user space to here, mostly because ABC paulista made a comment that other users echoed 12 years ago (including myself), followed by an AFD a year later that failed to achieve consensus. And yet, the article still exists, with the addition of Fabien and Pali. Assuming the article stays, it should do the following. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

To be clear, I'm not saying that the subject isn't notable enough to warrant it's own article/list, but I have doubts if there's enough information/content on the subject to make it eligible to be a featured one. ABC paulista (talk) 17:31, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

To do

• More comprehensive intro
• Background about tropical cyclogenesis and why it typically isn't near the equator, such as westerly wind burst and Madden–Julian oscillation.
• Make a description for each entry.
• Possibly expand to 5º?

♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:55, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

The criterion for "near equator" needs to be that used by a RS, preferably a lot of them. Otherwise this list fails WP:INDISCRIMINATE.--Jasper Deng (talk) 02:57, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

• Nature.com has 5º
• Forbes has 300 miles (slightly less than 345 miles that is 5º)
• Hong Kong Observatory has 5º
• Homework.study.com has "Cyclones generally do not form on the Equator or in the area that is located within five degrees of latitude from the Equator because the Coriolis forces"
• Quora.com has 5º

I didn't even do a search specifically for 5º, but seeing those resources, I'm convinced it should be expanded to 5º, and also that this list should be kept. There is a fair amount of academic research on it. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:04, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

The main issue that I have with expanding to 5 degrees (which it used to be originally) is that there were literally dozens of storms over the years that formed in that latitude. It was hard to keep track of them all so I trimmed the list down to only 3 degrees. Undescribed (talk) 04:14, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Then perhaps the list could be expanded to include those dozens of storms, and then skip the suggestion of having a description for each entry. The sources I kept reading referred to 5 degrees, so I would rather follow the sources for the cutoff then be unnecessarily restrictive. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:24, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

I think we should keep the list, make sure it lists all of the systems we know to have developed within five degrees of the equator and have a sentence or two about each. Yes it maybe a long list but I think it would be more accessible and understandable by the average jo blogs.Jason Rees (talk) 23:01, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

What about of a sentence on each one, we lump them together by their means of formation? Alice 79 and Pali 16 were due to a westerly wind burst. Fabien might've been, since it formed along with Mocha in the northern hemisphere. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:35, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Should Fabien be included?

Meteo-France has Fabien as a tropical disturbance at 2.7S, and a depression at 3.8S. So if we go by the latter it would disqualify Fabien for inclusion. This is a unique case because the SWIO is the only basin that uses the tropical disturbance classification. Is a tropical disturbance still considered to be a weak TC? It is listed on the Tropical cyclone scales, but in most basins tropical disturbance is not an actual TC. Normally we would only include depressions in the list which is why I ask. Undescribed (talk) 04:46, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

It's valid because it's a official classification for Meteo-France, and the Fiji Meteorological Service also classifies disturbances, so it's not a unique case. ABC paulista (talk) 16:40, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Thats true but Fiji also uses official classifications like "Tropical Low" and MFR uses "zone of disturbed weather" as an offical classification as well. But is a zone of disturbed weather sufficiently organized to be considered a tropical cyclone, even though it is an official classification? It just doesn't seem like there is much consistency here, since any other basin wouldn't consider these systems to be a tropical cyclone. A tropical disturbance or zone of disturbed weather forming near the equator is really not all that rare, and if every other basin included storms like Fabien, this list would be a lot longer IMO. Undescribed (talk) 16:58, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

AFAIK only BoM on the Australian basin uses Tropical Low as an official classification. But overall, there is no consistency because every RSMC and TCWC has it's own criteria on what counts and what doesn't, so we can't establish a norm to try and make sense of all of it. The only official and reliable criteria that can be reliably implemented IMO is considering only the classifications that lead to official advisories/bulletins issued by the agencies.

Also, keep in mind that the classificational conventions used in each basin might not be the same in other ones, i.e. a Tropical Low in the Australian basin might have different meaning compared to the same term being used by the NHC, and Tropical Disturbance might mean different things on the South Pacific compared to the South Indian basin. ABC paulista (talk) 17:28, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

As I believe the cutoff should be 5º, yes Fabien should be included. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:25, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying that it shouldn't be expanded to a cut off of 5 degrees, but it will definitely be a very long list. I tried to list them all but gave up because the list wasn't even close to being complete. Not that it can't be done. Undescribed (talk) 04:27, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Long lists are OK, and so are incomplete ones. Expanding to 5º would easily include Fabien, plus important storms like Typhoon Bopha and Typhoon Kate (1970). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Systems to possibly be added

Last night @Hurricanehink: messaged me and asked me for data on Bernie 1981, which prompted me to have a look over some old maps from the New Zealand Met Service. These suggest that Hannah 1971-72, Ida 1971-72, Bebe 1972-73, Diana 1972-73, Watorea 1975-76, Steve 1976-77, Tom 1976-77, Kerry 1978-79, Gordon 1978-79, Fay 1978-79 Raja 1986-87, Anne 1987-88 formed within 5 degrees of the equator.Jason Rees (talk) 11:18, 3 April 2024 (UTC)