Talk:List of suicides of LGBTQ people/Archive 1

Archive 1

Rename

Should this be renamed "List of LGBT-related deaths", to give a more varied list? I'm thinking of a title which would allow for inclusion of Damilola Taylor and Matthew Sheppard type of deaths. Pass a Method talk 11:32, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Could be, sounds better than the current title and would allow a more varied list like you said.

:Support Thanks Jenova20 11:54, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Oppose - For two reasons: How is a death related to one's sexuality? And isn't that like saying "a list of people who have died"? -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 14:10, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose. Inclusion criteria are vague enough as is, as I mention above. "Deaths" would broaden the list to hate crimes and executions as well, which is probably redundant to content elsewhere (eg. Significant acts of violence against LGBT people). –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 21:04, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Change to oppose - what Roscelese said Jenova20 12:28, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose - as per Satyr's comment above. LadyofShalott 00:54, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Inconsistent link

It appears that "Billy Lucas" in this list has a link, that rather than actually linking to the late teen, instead, links to a welsh athlete. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.66.68.189 (talk) 17:09, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria?

What are, or should be, the criteria for inclusion on this list? A simple intersection of "LGBT person" and "committed suicide" would probably be the easiest and least contentious to maintain, but it also may be less than helpful to a reader to mix in individuals where the intersection was just coincidental (eg. James Whale) with those where it was relevant (eg. Turing and the teens/preteens who killed themselves because of bullying). –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 01:31, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

The current list is a simple (?) intersection. It could, certainly, be more specific to suicide due to bullying, but even Whale's suicide was due (in part) to his sexuality. To me, it's encyclopedic to see that not only is this not a recent phenomenon (1932), it's also not just young people who are driven to suicide. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:45, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

I definitely agree with that point of view, and it's well supported by the inclusion of people like Turing - but could you show me what indicates that Whale's suicide was related to his sexual orientation? Admittedly I'm just going off his Wikipedia article, but it seems that it was motivated by his failing health. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:58, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Hm - I didn't read that article well enough. Good point - Whale's suicide doesn't seem to be related to his sexuality. My bad. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 23:40, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Whoops, came here from WP:LGBT after looking at the article and it turns out I've...made this same point nearly eight years ago. I still maintain that it is important to limit this list to people who committed suicide for reasons related to their sexuality or gender, not simply to any LGBT person who committed suicide. The young bullying victims, Alan Turing, Lord Arthur Clinton, yes. But the articles, at least, do not indicate that the suicides of William Inge, Leslie Cheung, Thomas M. Disch, F._O._Matthiessen (unless his sexuality factored into the HUAC investigation in a way that the article doesn't currently detail), Dora Carrington (who appears to have committed suicide from sorrow at the death of her male partner), Brenda Benet and possibly others have anything to do with their sexuality or gender identity. We should also consider removing them from Category:LGBT and suicide. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 01:50, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

Strict notability inclusion criteria

This list has become a garbage list and needs clear inclusion criteria, per Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists#Common selection criteria: "Every entry meets the notability criteria for its own non-redirect article in the English Wikipedia." Each entry should be notable in its own right, and to prevent more misuse of the list (especially because of the very sensitive legal and BLP issues involved) we should require that each entry is notable enough for its own article, IOW notable enough that the article has survived the typical AfD attempts which many, if not most, new articles are subjected.

Misuse places an unfair burden on editors here who are then required to double-check all the sources used. That isn't right. The burden for proving notability belongs to the one wishing to add an entry to the list, so let them create the article. If it becomes accepted, then they can add it to this list.

Accordingly, I am going to start paring the list down and alphabetizing it by last name. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:43, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Cleanup  Done -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:07, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Ryan Halligan

Should the case of Ryan Patrick Halligan be considered an LGBT-related suicide?

Ryan probably was not himself an LGBT person, but, I mean, there was a significant impact of homophobic messages in the combination of factors that made him commit suicide. So, should it be considered? Magi129 (talk) 00:32, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

Poor naming?

To me, the title "List of LGBT-related suicides" would imply that the suicides listed happened as a direct result of the person being LGBT. However, it covers lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people whose suicides were deemed sufficiently notable to be reported by the media. In other words, one could have committed suicide for an entirely unrelated matter and still be listed. Brenda Benet is listed, which implies the title, as opposed to the content, is wrong. I'm boldly moving the page, but anyone is free to CSD-nominate my redirect and move the page back (WP:RMUM). Sincerely, Novo Tape^{My Talk Page} 18:46, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion section above seems to evidence this confusion. The new name looks better to me. It isn't always clearly verifiable that a suicide is "LGBT-related"; that a person was LGBT and died by suicide will be controversial less often. — Bilorv (talk) 11:42, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

L, G, B, T column

It seems odd to me that the last column should be limited to L, G, B, and/or T. There may be people who do not strictly identify as one of those identities and it could be disrespectful to list them otherwise. For example some people identify with the term Queer, or Pansexual. Furthermore, what about other identities that are part of the LGBT+ community, such as Asexual people? Is this list meant to be very strictly only people who identify as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender? And if so, why limit the list like that? To me the last column reads a bit unprofessional, and it would be better to make it something like "Identity." Then each row can have the individuals specific identity, with symbols as needed for certain exceptions. The last column may work well enough for now, but it seems like something that should be updated for better standards and for future-proofing. LeahFromCincy (talk) 16:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't see why not to just add Q as an option, not everyone in the community identifies as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender, but the whole community can fit under the label "queer." The title would also have to be changed, though. Love, Cassie. (Talk to me!) 16:28, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

@LeahFromCincy and Puella mortua: I think I've found a potential solution with this edit. I updated the list to be about "LGBT" people instead of only "lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender" people, as LGBT can refer to anyone who is non-heterosexual or non-cisgender. As for the column, I changed it from "L, G, B, T" to "sexual orientation / gender identity", and I'm in the process of going through and updating each person so that their orientation or identity is actually verified by the source. I've already found numerous people listed who did not identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender specifically. ––FormalDude (talk) 11:58, 2 July 2024 (UTC)