Talk:List of states that have recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: procedural closure. The article has been redirected to Macedonia naming dispute. George Ho (talk) 08:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

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List of states that have recognized Macedonia under its constitutional name → List of states that have recognized the Republic of Macedonia – under which name they recognize can be added in the list instead. J 1982 (talk) 13:23, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

• Comment the name is already a violation of WP:NPOV. There are states that refuse to describe the geopolitical administration concerned by way of the name Macedonia and yet Wikipedia still uses this name to describe the existence of "Macedonia" in its own voice. The new title is likely also inaccurate. Other states may recognise it as a state but not according to its chosen name. GregKaye 19:09, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
• Suggest List of states by recognition of the Republic of Macedonia by this constitutionally adopted name. GregKaye 19:15, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
• Comment: Including some version of the word "constitutional" in the title seems like unnecessary off-topic POV WP:Editorializing – an assertion that this name is its proper and correct name and that anyone who doesn't "recognize" that is in denial. Since including "constitutional" seems unnecessary to identify the topic, including it seems like off-topic POV advocacy of a position on the question. (So does marking the entries in the table with red and green colouring, but now it's me that's getting off-topic in regard to the name). The fact that a name is written in a constitution is information that can be duly noted in the article, but is unnecessary in the title. How about List of states by recognition of the Republic of Macedonia or List of states by recognition of the name Republic of Macedonia or List of states by recognition of the name "Republic of Macedonia", leaving further detail to the list article itself? —BarrelProof (talk) 19:38, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
• This redundant list "article" shouldn't even exist. It consists entirely of information that is already in the section on Naming policies of foreign countries and organisations at the Macedonia naming dispute. Just redirect it there and be done with it. —  AjaxSmack  05:21, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
• Comment if this list article is to exist, it should instead be List of states that recognize the state of Macedonia whereupon within the list article, the conditions underwhich they recognize Macdeonia is outlined (ie. do they call it "Macedonia", "Republic of Macedonia", FYROM, Skopje, etc.) That would be a proper subarticle of "Macedonia naming dispute" -- 65.94.40.137 (talk) 14:42, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose renaming; consider deletion though. A "List of states that recognise the state of Macedonia", as proposed by some here, would be useless, because there is no such issue under dispute. To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a single state anywhere that doesn't recognize Macedonia (it's a full UN member and everything). The only issue that does exist is indeed the recognition of the name. There are states that have publicly declared acceptance of the name as defined by this state for itself, "Republic of Macedonia" (and yes, in the absence of a better term, this name is commonly called the "constitutional name" in the literature, because that's what it is; how else whould you call it?) There are states that have explicitly denied that recognition, and both Macedonia and its neighbor Greece have at times very actively and publicly campaigned to draw other parties from one camp into the other. As such, there is a notable topic to be treated here. In principle it might well be worth considering factoring this information out from the Macedonia naming dispute main article into a list sub-article, as attempted here. However, the problem is, of course, sourcing. Trying to maintain such a list over at the main article has been a perpetual WP:NOR nightmare, and doing it here will run into the same problems. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:01, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  Re: "how else whould you call it?", I suggest you could call it "Republic of Macedonia", or "the name Republic of Macedonia", or "the name 'Republic of Macedonia'", all of which seem more clear and straightforward and less POV than "its constitutional name" or "its constitutionally adopted name". —BarrelProof (talk) 18:22, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  I don't know what POV you are reading into the term "constitutional". "Constitutional" doesn't mean "proper and correct". It means "as defined in the constitution", no more and no less. That's about as neutral and matter-of-fact as it gets. We're using that term in all sorts of places, wherever this topic comes up (such as Macedonia naming dispute), because that's simply how the reliable sources routinely refer to the matter – including sources that are themselves strongly opposed to this name, such a official Greek ones. But, whatever, for the present article it's probably a moot issue now, because I don't really see this page surviving long. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:03, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

  I could be wrong, but the first thought that jumps into my mind when hearing "its constitutionally adopted name" is "Why don't they just say the darn name instead of referring to it tangentially like that?" —BarrelProof (talk) 07:04, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

  Point taken. But then, the issue with that is probably not so much the use of "constitutional", but the whole idea of having a naked list like this without the context of the Macedonia naming dispute page. Without the background of that article, "why don't they all just use the same darned name?" is indeed the natural response to this list, no matter how it's phrased here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:22, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.