Talk:List of national legal systems/Archive 1

Archive 1

Suggestion

I'm suggesting this should be merged with law because, the fact is, you can't talk about law without situating the law within a legal system. PullUpYourSocks 03:47, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

rather than merge I decided the article would be best served by giving a servey of the legal systems in practice around the world. PullUpYourSocks 12:48, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree that this page makes little sense as it stands. Maybe we should rename it to List of legal systems by tradition or somesuch.

sure, that could work. PullUpYourSocks 04:15, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Any mention of the country of Moldova? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.141.89.105 (talk) 17:10, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

The case of India

India's is a curious case. Before the coming of the British, local and private, as well as Caste laws were prevalent throughout India. Imperial conquerers from time to time instituted their own legal codes. After the coming of the British, Indian laws were codified for better administration and dispute resolution. Many of the laws thus codified and instituted were based on English Common Law. However, the point to be taken is that all laws were codified, and only then were they dispensed. If we just look at the Common Law definition given in Wikipedia:

"The common law forms a major part of the law of many countries, especially those with a history as British territories or colonies. It is notable for its inclusion of extensive non-statutory law reflecting a consensus of centuries of judgments by working jurists. ... One is used to distinguish the authority that promulgated a particular proposition of law: in the United States, we typically have "statutes" enacted by a legislature, "regulations" promulgated by executive branch agencies pursuant to a delgation of rule-making authority from a legislature, and "common law" decisions issued by courts (or quasi-judicial tribunals within agencies) that discuss and decide the fine distinctions in statutes and regulations. See statutory law and non-statutory law."

we find that the Common Law has mostly been non-statutory customary law. However, Indian laws during the centuries since the coming of the British have been what is called 'Positive law', ie, laws made by and promulgated by a secular known authority. There are certain sectors of Indian laws where some customary and what are called 'Personal laws' are prevalent, like in issues relating to marriage, inheritance, divorce, adoption, etc. Even there proper statutes have been made that dictate and regulate the jurisdiction of personal laws. Article 44 of the Constitution enjoins upon the government to ensure that a Common Civil Code is ushered throughout the land, but that has not yet come about, and Common Civil Code remains a most contested issue in Indian Polity. India's constitution was written after Indian independence, and was promulgated on 26 January 1950, and the constitution remains the primary legal document. The Indian Civil Code, the Indian Penal Code and Civil Procedure Codes are based on English made laws (all of which were made especially for India, although heavily borrowing from English system), and they have been amended many times. This puts India in a very unique position. Of course there are remnants of Common law as usually defined, but I think India should more rightly be put under the Civil law system.

These are good points and warrant further research. However, I still hold several major reservations. First, codification alone does not make a system civilian. A majority of US laws are codified in places such as the UCC, restatements, and in state penal codes, but we don't say that it is civilian. Second, as far as I recall, India folllowed the adversary system, a distinct tradition of the common law, rather than the inquisatorial system. As well, from what I've read of Privy Council decisions from India, I get the impression that Indian judges were bound by presedent (ie. stare decisis), another common law feature. Lastly, the sources available at the bottom of the article, the CIA factbook and the Ottawa law survey, both say that India is common law. While they could both be both wrong, I think some more authoratative sources are needed to refute them. I believe we are both in agreement that India is not a pure common law country, but the question remains as to which system, at its core, it follows. --PullUpYourSocks 13:03, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Indian contract law in Cyprus? Is it real? Sources?Legislator (talk) 10:33, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Pakistan is Common Law

The Pakistani legal system is based on the common law. There are a few areas (inheitance for one) which are based on Islamic law to a certain extent, but

1) The Pakistani Penal system is based on the Indian Penal Code of 1860. The civil procedure codes are still in effect.

2) Pakistan retains an adversarial court procedure.

NZ is Common Law

Just added in NZ in the common law table, might put something about Maori land law later, but new to Wikipedia editing so I want to check things first :-) Alphamatrix 03:30, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

What's about european union?

european union makes directives. what kind of law is this. Will a european law be differently apllied in UK and in France?

Malta

I'm moving Malta from Civil Law to mixed for the following reasons:

• Although the Civil Code looks Civil at the first look, it has some peculiarity that are typical for Common Law: contracts need consideration (Cap. 16 § 966 (d)), and the primary remedy for non-performance is damages, not specific performance (Cap. 16 § 1125)
• Other sources such as [1] list it as mixed.

-- 3247 13:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Argentina and Chile

The map shows Argentina as mixed common and civil but the article states it is just civil. Which is it? Also, Chile overhauled their trial system so that it is now adversarial. Show we include this as mixed now? KingOfAfrica 13:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Two of the sources found in the external links section seem to conflict on Argentina. I'm more inclined to follow the CIA page, but I would prefer a third source to confirm it. As for Chile, I would keep it as civil. The main distinguishing factor for a common law-style system is whether the justice system follows stare decisis. I'm not inclined to think that an adversarial style would make it a mixed common/civil system. You could argue either way, really.--PullUpYourSocks 20:35, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Quebec

Mixture of law in Quebec

To say that Canada is common law except civil law in Quebec is a little misleading.

For criminal law purposes, common law is used throughout Canada, including quebec. For civil law purposes (by this I mean private law) common law is used everywhere except Quebec. Quebec does use a napoleonic system for private law, but common law for criminal law.

If someone could figure out how to work this in there that'd be great.

Civil law & codification

I've edited the recent edit which suggests that Quebec only became a civil law jurisdiction in 1866, with the enactment of the Civil Code of Lower Canada. While codification is one of the characteristics of most modern civil law jurisdictions, the concept of the civil law is not restricted to codified systems - another defining feature of civil law systems is that they are ultimately derived from the Roman law, as elaborated over the centuries. Quebec did not become a civil law jurisdiction for the first time in 1866, any more than France became a civil jurisdiction for the first time in 1804, with the adoption of the Napoleonic Code. Codification was a modern development in the long history of the civil law system. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 12:27, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Remove 'customary law'

I'd like to suggest that the sections about 'customary law' be removed. The reason is that I just don't think it's an actual legal system in its own right. Custom is certainly a source of law, and an important one, but it doesn't constitute a legal system. The only two examples given are Andorra and Mongolia. This is a link to law in Mongolia, which I googled in about 2 seconds, showing a distinct lack of 'custom' - it's a civil code based jurisdiction. As for Andorra, it's a European country, and I bet it's got a civil law system much like the places around it. If you wanted you could call the common law customary law under the definition given on the customary law page, and you could call England a mixed system with custom and common law: think of all the Parliamentary procedures, or the custom that the monarch doesn't sack the elected government (since 1707 I think). I'm sure that you can easily remove it from the page, and it'd make the page far simpler, neater and more accurate. Would it be okay for me to go ahead on this? Wikidea 04:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and done this, hopefully not too soon, but with any luck it's not really controversial! Wikidea 08:27, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Customary law is certainly a distinct form of law. It should not be removed. Any casual reading of a comparative law text book should demonstrate that customary law is treated as a separate system with identifiable patterns and earmarks in all jurisdictions practicing such. The Common Law is essentially generalization of customary law, depending on one's perspective. Geofferic 17:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I could be mistaken about this, Geofferic; for instance, I know that public international law relies heavily on custom, in the practice of nation states, which "ripens" into a source of law. But I've not read any books which treat customary law as a full system in its own right. Do you have any references at hand? I think that fundamentally, the only thing that rigidly divides common law from civil law, or any other way, is which is the predominate source of law, not that one kind of source is exclusively authoritative or not. In the U.K., we codified our commercial law in the sales of goods acts; in Germany, there are always instances or case law popping up; there's no international law-maker, although various treaties, the UN codifications and the ICJ's opinions add to the mix of different sources. But as I say, I could be wrong! Wikidea 04:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

In the study of Comparative Law, or even of International Law (especially the Law of the Sea), it is difficult to discuss the various specific areas without considering Customary Law as a legal system, specific to it's region. India, for example, is a mixed system of Common, Civil, Relgious and Customary law. The more localized you get in these less developed nations, the more you see the Customary laws being the day to day governing law. Almost every African nation can be said to have a mixed system, with Customary law being a major player. I will have to get back to you soon with some references. I complete understand your skepticism and interest in references. Geofferic 16:26, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I just stumbled on this article. I don't have any background in law and after looking at the map with legal systems, I don't really understand what customary law is. There are inconsistencies between the map, the lists of countries and the main text in the article. What do you think is the right thing to do to fix that? -- Martinkunev (talk) 00:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Customary law is most definitely its own legal system, as stated by Geofferic above. I have read this in books on comparative law, but I do not at the present have any sources to add to this discussion. Canon Law Junkie §§§ Talk 06:05, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Section Needs Overhaul

The section on Civil Law has serious problems in the third and fourth sentences. Right now, I would recommend reworking them from the ground up, but scrapping them and starting over doesn't seem awful either. They are an utter disaster and do nothing but confuse anyone interested in the topic. 64.131.169.110 (talk) 00:36, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Louisiana's Code not inherited by way of Louisiana Purchase

The Louisiana section implies that the Napoleonic code came with the Louisiana territory when it was purchased. This is not the case. The Spanish civil code was in effect in the Louisiana territory when it was purchased from Napoleon. The state of Louisiana later voluntarily accepted the French civil code (not truly the Napoleonic code, but that's a fine point). The purchase was completed in 1804 and no true change in law (other than the partial importation of US Common law) occurred prior to 1808, when the Civil Code was drawn up based on French, Spanish and Napoleonic code - with French being the primary influence (France having recently completed all the work of writing up a fresh new code).

Geofferic 17:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Is this right?

"Federal court system based on napoleonic code not english legal system"

Its lack of capitals makes it look like a hasty vandal's addition. --Czar Kirk (talk) 02:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

No, I'll amend it. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Law_of_the_United_States quite clearly states that Federal law is based on English Common law, it has not diverged rather it only doesn't accept rulings from the British courts unlike the Commonwealth (Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the like).Twobells (talk) 15:56, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

The Legal System in Bahrain

In 2001 the Kingdom of Bahrain changed from a Common Law - Sharia hybrid to a Civil law system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.194.62.230 (talk) 08:09, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Legal origins theory

On page Civil_law_(legal_system) legal origins theory suggests four subgroups, as opposed to the three subgroups on Legal_systems_of_the_world adding Chinese law. The two pages should be reconciled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Biccat (talk • contribs) 21:26, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

"traditional" laws

What kind of laws are the council of elders (Somalia, ...), ayllu (bolivia), and the general fono (tokelau), ... ? They also aren't mentioned in article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.176.5 (talk) 11:21, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps a section on Customary law or Traditional law could be added? The lack of this does seem very 1st-world centric. Canon Law Junkie §§§ Talk 06:02, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

File:LegalSystemsOfTheWorldMap.png

This map is overly simplistic when compared to this article. For example, Pakistan and Bangladesh are described as being both a mix of religious and common law in this article but in the map Pakistan is marked as common law and Bangladesh is marked as Islamic law. Also, Mauritania and Egypt are equally a mix of civil law and Islamic law but Egypt is marked as only civil and Mauritania as only Islamic. Shouldn't there be a lot of stripes to the map? Munci (talk) 19:18, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

It seems to me that Bangladesh being marked as Fiqh is actually plain wrong -- Bangladesh seems to be closest to common law if anything. Someone should fix it. -- 92.225.17.7 (talk) 15:02, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Norman Law+English Common Law= Origins in Islamic law?

Far too much weight lol, it is only Professor Makdisi and another Islamic scholar Omar Faruk who believes that, that vast majority know otherwise and the article should reflect that, I'll update.Twobells (talk) 15:17, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Vatican

Law of Vatican is described in Codex Iuris Canonici, the latest version from 1983, based mostly on older so called Pio-Benedictine from 1917. In the end it can obviously be traced to religious foundation but nevertheless it is a case of Civil Law, isn't it? Errarel (talk) 20:22, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

No, the law of Vatican City is not simply "a case of civil law" "traced to religious foundation". Firstly, it is based upon Catholic canon law, and the law of Italy, whose codes Vatican City State largely adopted when it was formed as a sovereign state in 1929 (see Lateran Treaty). Secondly, Catholic canon law is the oldest continuously functioning legal system in the West, developing both from the laws issued by popes and councils, but also directly from the Roman law which the Catholic Church inherited as its patrimony from the declining Roman Empire (see Legal history of the Catholic Church). When canon law became a systematized corpus of law and jurisprudence under Gratian in the 1150s, it was at the same time that the medieval universities were rediscovering Roman law and the Glossatores were writing commentaries on the laws, incorporating some Roman legal doctrines into their own extant systems. It was in this period especially that canon law was influenced by Roman law, and in turn canon law influenced the blossoming civil law system (as a distinct entity from the Roman law from which it derives). In addition to the vast contributions of Roman law, civil law incorporated some Germanic legal traditions, while canon law incorporated many traditions and requirements of divine revelation as the Church interpreted it. It could be said that Roman law had two children: civil law and canon law. Both are direct descendants; similar in many ways, but distinct offspring from their Roman parent. Canon Law Junkie §§§ Talk

Common law: 51 U.S. states

I am not up to date on the admission of the 51st state so could someone enlighten me? My wonderment comes from the "Common law" section and wikitable that list under the United States, in the description column: Federal courts and 50 states use the legal system based on English common law.... It further states: State law in the U.S. state of Louisiana is based on French and Spanish civil law (see above), but doesn't say exactly where. The point is that as worded there are 50 states practicing Common law "and" the state of Louisiana that practices Civil law. According to this the United States should be listed in both sections (Civil and Common) with Louisiana the only entry under Civil. Louisiana actually has to practice both forms of law. WHAT! you might say. The fact is that if the United States Government practices "Common Law", and a Supreme Court decision is passed down that a Louisiana "Civil law" is unconstitutional, then the Federal law takes precedent and Louisiana must adhere to this. Anyway, I am still wondering about the 51st state. Otr500 (talk) 18:30, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Scandinavian legal systems

What is Scandinavian Law? Concept, Characteristics, Future (Ulf Bernitz). I think this would help because there isn't any much info on legal systems of Scandinavian countries. Komitsuki (talk) 10:43, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

There's a bit more information here I think

http://www.scandinavianlaw.se/pdf/50-1.pdf

Luredreier (talk) 17:35, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

Here's a quote from the above source by the way, that might help explain it to some degree:

In recent Scandinavian legal writing, the topic of legal classification has been treated, i.a., by Michael Bogdan, professor at Lund University, in his textbook Komparativ rättskunskap12 (Comparative Legal Science). Similarly to Professor Jacob Sundberg of Stockholm University,13 Bogdan stresses that Nordic law belongs primarily to the family of the legal systems of Continental Europe, showing far more similarities to these systems than to those belonging to the common law family. On the other hand, Ditlev Tamm, a Danish professor of legal history, has favoured the view Scandinavian law should be regarded as a separate legal family, pointing at three key factors: the limited importance of legal formalities, the lack of modern codifications and the absence of an actual reception of Roman law.14

I hope that helped Luredreier (talk) 17:40, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

second map

File:Legal System Detailed Map.pdf

The document depicts detailed legal system classification of countries

What's the advantage of including this second map? I note that it mistakenly depicts Quebec as including Labrador, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia; who knows what other errors it has. —Tamfang (talk) 07:08, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

I too found this map filled with imprecisions.

• Israel, Lebanon, the Gambia, Rwanda, Burundi, Malawi and Djibouti don't exist in it;
• Belize, Jamaica and the Caribbean countries, as well as all the microstates, European or Asian, and most island nations around the world don't either;
• Also, when did Haiti and the Dominican Republic become socialist states;
• It includes Hong Kong and Macao (albeit miscoloured) but there was no space for Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Lesotho and Swaziland;
• Kazakhstan now controls all of central Asia, Caspian sea covers all of the northern border of Iran, and Russia has taken back the Caucasus;
• Also, what's going on in Kaliningrad;
• the exception in the case of Louisiana looks more like a city one;
• Apparently Voivodina already achieved independence but South Sudan not yet;
• Thailand, Cyprus and Guinea Bissau are so "Mixed" they can't be broken down in the previous 20+ categories;
• "Dictatorship" appears as a legal system;
• Why is there no doubt about Western Sahara;
• Turkey now covers the entire Aegean;

I'll add these observations to the image's talk page as well. Pqnlrn (talk) 04:51, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

The section summarising the common law should be rewritten by an author who knows the topic.

The qualified reader of the present summary will be astounded to learn the following "facts":-

In some jurisdictions, ... statutes may overrule judicial decisions. Well, in all common law jurisdictions statutes may overrule judicial decisions. Name a country where it isn't so.

In some jurisdictions, judicial decisions may decide what meaning is contained within the statutory provisions. In all jurisdictions judicial decisions may (and do) decide what a statute means. Nacwiis.

Statutes were allowed to be made by the government. Not unless it was a dictatorship.

Common law developed in England, influenced by Anglo-Saxon law and to a much lesser extent by the Norman conquest of England ...' The influence of Anglo-Saxon law is minimal. The Norman influence was much greater, not much lesser. But neither of those have had any real influence on the common law, which did not start to develop until the reign of Henry II, well after the end of the Norman dynasty.

... which introduced legal concepts from Norman law, which, in turn, had its origins in Salic law. It makes you blush. Next time I'm in court I must make sure to cite some of that Salic law.

Common law was later inherited by the Commonwealth of Nations, and almost every former colony of the British Empire has adopted it (Malta being an exception). Why not mention the United States of America? Isn't that kind of an important common law country? Who says that South Africa (Roman-Dutch law) and Sri Lanka (Roman-Dutch law) are common law systems? BTW, I'm not an expert on Malta, but if this bit is true the author of Law of Malta will have to change it some.

Ttocserp 13:46, 5 August 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prkprescott (talk • contribs)

Common Law Most Widespread - Civil law Most Widespread

Ive updated the article as reliable sources state that the two major legal systems can equally hold the 'most widespread' tag. Common law by most number of jurisdictions and population empoying the system and the legal structure that covers the most landmass which is Civil law, subsequently, I've updated the article to reflect that, regards.Twobells^t@lk 14:58, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

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Can someone help me add Singapore into the list of countries?

Hey guys, I noticed that Singapore is not added into the list of countries. The legal system in Singapore is the British common law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.161.33.20 (talk) 05:20, 2 April 2018 (UTC)