Talk:List of Sonic the Hedgehog characters/Archive 6

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Archive 6

Can Sage be on the page now?

SPOILERS: Sage has now appeared in two games, both Sonic Frontiers and The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog. And considering the criteria, can she be added to the page? Plus it's likely that she'll be in more future games too, Tribal-Mand0 (talk) 02:57, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

No. She must have two substantial appearances in either the comics or games as per the list criteria. Sage in The Murder of Sonic the Hedgehog doesn’t do anything substantial. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 16:48, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Seconded. Sergecross73 msg me 16:55, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

WHERE IS MECHA SONIC!!!!????

Please add him okay? 3rf8ugeruifcg e3tiuv befwwk jfkvgnewfmfhvi (talk) 20:53, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

He CANONONICLY showed up and fought Sonic 2ice!!! 3rf8ugeruifcg e3tiuv befwwk jfkvgnewfmfhvi (talk) 21:01, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Please read the inclusion criteria at the top of the page. Sergecross73 msg me 21:02, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Considering that Mecha Sonic appeared in more than one game, I'd say he qualifies for inclusion. Bluest Bird (talk) 07:45, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Feel free to workshop an entry that meets the inclusion criteria here. Sergecross73 msg me 13:56, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

He also appeared in the comics (More specifically, he was the main antagonist in Sonic the Hedgehog: Scrapnik Island.) Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:19, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 May 2023

Please fix the “installments” typo on the following line found in the Vector the Crocodile section: “In all instalments'Bold text' of Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, he is a playable athlete.” 2603:9001:6F07:61C0:154B:F8FB:9D5F:8B96 (talk) 01:18, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done 💜  melecie  talk - 03:48, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

thank you 💖 2603:9001:6F07:61C0:F1EE:7:9A8F:CDD5 (talk) 22:06, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 May 2023 (2)

Please omit the false claim that Vector is a “modern exclusive” character in the following line: “Vector was also the only 'Modern exclusive' character (besides Shadow) to appear in the Sonic Boom franchise,” Although redesigned for the “modern” era, Vector was still introduced in the “classic” era, making this statement both unnecessary and false.

(God, the amount of errors on this page is making me want to make a Wikipedia account!) 2603:9001:6F07:61C0:154B:F8FB:9D5F:8B96 (talk) 01:25, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

 Note: The entire paragraph was added via this revision without any reliable sources provided. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 13:37, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done removed the unsourced paragraph. M.Bitton (talk) 19:12, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

thank you 💖 2603:9001:6F07:61C0:F1EE:7:9A8F:CDD5 (talk) 22:06, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

Silver the Hedgehog comment (fan dislike)

The 2 sources cited to support the claim of Silver being disliked by all fans are merely opinion pieces when actually explored, but their inclusion on the article is prefaced with the assertion that fans widely agree on this issue.

That’s an impossible measure and way too subjective, meaning the comment is false and misleading.

The same source, when read fully, goes on to insinuate other characters are hated by a specific ranking which is simply unsourced itself or unverifiable.

If the sources were actually talking about demonstrated fan feedback or evidence from the fan community itself, that would be different. But the sources don’t do that.

Citing 2 blatant opinion pieces from non-authorized sources should not be allowed. Thus the comment should be removed. 2607:FEA8:1C1E:6800:11FA:8167:F470:85AD (talk) 15:04, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not following - why are opinion pieces off limits for the reception of a character. That's what reception is - opinions. Sergecross73 msg me 15:46, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@Sergecross73: I’ll agree with the IP’s point but not fully on the reasoning, because both sources are by Jim Sterling. I’d be okay with it being stated it’s his opinion, but knowing how pointed he can be I wouldn’t say he speaks for all fans in any given situation. Red Phoenix ^talk 18:02, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

The current prose just says The character has generally not been very well received by critics, not anything related to the fanbase, but I agree that if both are Sterling, then we need to either adjust the wording or find another source or two so we can justify saying "critics". Sergecross73 msg me 18:56, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. I thought on it but couldn’t as of yet sort how to do it given it’s a paragraph on its own and I think it would be undue weight to give Sterling the weight of a paragraph in this list. Red Phoenix ^talk 19:31, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Missing Carecter

"Sticks the badger" is a badger from sonic boom and it is missing in the carecter section can somebody please add it? Connorj2341 (talk) 15:56, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

She's already on the list. At the bottom, at List of Sonic the Hedgehog characters#Sticks the Badger. Sergecross73 msg me 16:18, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you i did not see it Connorj2341 (talk) 15:49, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Shadow the Hedgehog

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I'm merging shadow the hedgehog into list of sonic characters! 2A02:842A:864E:E101:C898:A18A:CBC0:55D9 (talk) 14:06, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Oppose No merge reason stated or convincing argument to merge the article. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:18, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose and suggest Speedy Close No reasoning given and article seems fine as is.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 07:36, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 9 October 2023

Fang the "Sniper" is now called Fang the "Hunter" by official sources (even in Japanese), his section name (as in the headliner called Fang the Sniper) in this article should reflect that. 155.4.59.43 (talk) 04:24, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 15:22, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

I believe it is about time for Amy Rose to have her own article

Sockpuppet discussion -- ferret (talk) 00:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

I believe this article about Amy Rose is ready for publication. Amy Rose is notable. She has been around since 1993, i.e., for 30 years at the time of writing this. That is enough time for people to be aware of her existence. Amy has been a playable character in multiple games, a major non-playable character in others, and has been featured in a plethora of other media. What will it take for her to have her own article? I believe enough years have passed, a bunch of reliable sources have been cited, and sufficient edits have been made for this article to be polished to a level where it is ready to be published and viewed by the general public. Will it take her appearance in a future feature-length film for this article to be published? If anyone disagrees, please feel free to provide your explanation as to why Amy can't have her own article. I would love to hear it, but with all due respect, I truly hope a consensus is reached where everyone agrees that she should have her own separate article before another decade goes by. Happyblackcat (talk) 20:00, 15 November 2023 (UTC) On Wikipedia, whether or not a subject has its own article isn't dependent on how many games or films they appear in. It's whether or not it meets the WP:GNG. I'd recommend looking into the reasons her article was eliminated before, and providing evidence on how things have changed, instead, as that would be far more persuasive. I can dig up past discussions for you if you're serious about pursuing this. Sergecross73 msg me 00:22, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 April 2024

Please just let me edit the page thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 7s6uy8iwj (talk • contribs) 19:07, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Please submit requested changes on the talk page. Sergecross73 msg me 19:10, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Should Tom & Maddie Wachowski be added to the "Characters in other media"?

I was mainly wondering whether it's time to add Tom & Maddie to the "Characters in Other Media" section. As they're very important characters for the movie franchise, with them both being in three films as lead characters by the end of the year and Maddie even having a big role in the Knuckles show too (plus they were both in the "Prequill" comic for Sonic 2).

They haven't been in games no, but neither has Chris Thorndyke and he's on there and Sally only had a small cameo in Spinball. So yeah, I just wanted to see if anyone else thinks we should add them now (maybe even Agent Stone too potentially). Tribal-Mand0 (talk) 22:17, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

See the inclusion criteria at the top of the page. Sergecross73 msg me 23:17, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Technically then they should be allowed on right? Cause they've been in the movies, the Knuckles show and the prequel comic too. Tribal-Mand0 (talk) 04:03, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

How about when it comes to exclusive members of the Guardian Unit of Nations (or G.U.N. for short) should we find some sources to establish a section for it as well as sections for Tikal and Pachacamac (who Christopher Lloyd is voicing in Knuckles) as both of them are currently redirecting to this article. --Rtkat3 (talk) 22:46, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm perfectly sure Big should have his own article

Sonic series may have a huge cast however, despite the oversize cast of the series, only about six of them get their own independent article while characters like Amy Rose can get into argument over she can have her own article. For Big, I have been writing a draft about Big within a sandbox and I think it's ready and loaded to become an independent article on Wikipedia because I was able to find my three best sources which are 14 or 21, 22 and 24. Also for some still-in-topic discussion, I also to believe other Sonic characters might get it own independent article instead of being a section the list article so. NatwonTSG2 (talk) 02:49, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Which new sources that are significant coverage have you found? (It's best to link them rather than mention them by number like that since the numbering may change as it's being edited and altered.) Sergecross73 msg me 15:05, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

I only think Big can really get his own article if other more important/prominent characters like Amy (who really needs one), Rouge, the Chaotix, etc. ever get their own first. Tribal-Mand0 (talk) 21:59, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Just seen he does has his own page then, the fact that Big has his own page yet Amy doesn't is very bizzare. Tribal-Mand0 (talk) 22:03, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

They published their draft without waiting for any feedback. I'm not particularly convinced either should have articles in their current state/what people have proposed in the past. Sergecross73 msg me 22:25, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

@Tribal-Mand0 It usually doesn't matter if less important characters like for example, Bobby from Paper Mario: The Origami King gets his own article before more important like Bowser. Jr did which has been redirected due of not showing notability so. NatwonTSG2 (talk) 22:45, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Still though, I think at the very least Amy deserves her own page then, considering she is one of the core main characters of the franchise. Tribal-Mand0 (talk) 23:43, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Again, that's not how it works. Read WP:NVGC and the WP:GNG for how it works. Sergecross73 msg me 23:58, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

I have seen an AFD discussion for Big the Cat. How minor is Big the Cat anyway? --Rtkat3 (talk) 18:29, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

What is that question supposed to mean? Sergecross73 msg me 22:00, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

I think it's supposed to mean that @Rtkat3 has seen an AFD discussion for Big and wanted to know how minor he is. For the minor question, in my opinion, Big is not really a minor character in the series since he has made some important appearances in games like Sonic Adventure, Heroes and maybe Frontiers I guess? NatwonTSG2 (talk) 13:26, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Speaking frankly the "minor character" reasoning never sat right with me for that AfD, the bigger problem was the sourcing not really saying a lot about him to substantiate the article (no offense meant by that, I dug a bit too and struggled to find anything that could really carry it). But minor characters in a franchise can work perfectly fine as articles if they're picked up as fan favorites by media outlets or get some solid discussion behind them.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 13:07, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you described the cast as "oversized." But I would agree that if Big is to get an article, other more well-known and more popular characters should get an article first. Onuzurike424 (talk) 15:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Probably because video game critics and journalists have gone after the series for how many characters have been added over the years. I’m away from my sources to pull right now, but I’d thought on adding a section to this list about that criticism. (I’ll mention the quote “Silver the Unnecessary Hedgehog” is one that vividly sticks in my mind). Red Phoenix ^talk 16:02, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I think people forget how much heat the series used to get for having so many characters in the 2000s... Sergecross73 msg me 17:29, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Sage from Sonic Frontiers

I've noticed how Sage is absent from the list of Sonic characters detailed despite her prominent role within Sonic Frontiers as a driving force behind the game's plot and boss battles, so I thought I'd give a heads up and suggest she's added to the list. 149.50.164.55 (talk) 23:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

See the inclusion criteria at the top of the page. Sergecross73 msg me 23:38, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Sally article?

Does Sally Acorn or any of the characters from SatAM/Archie series deserve their own pages? I've dug up plenty of wiki-worthy info for the former, and I know there are more prominent characters that need their own pages (such as Amy or Metal Sonic), but I think I'd be nice to lift a candle to the original American continuity for Sonic somewhat. NintenBOUND (talk) 13:23, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Although that’d be nice, so would many of the propositions in this talk page for their own character articles. The question is, when you say “wiki-worthy”, do you mean reliable sources and are they noteworthy? What we need for a full article on Wikipedia is well-sourced information in multiple reliable sources about the character’s development and reception, in source material focused on that character specifically and not just listicles. That’s pretty rare for all but the most well-known characters. Otherwise it’s probably more appropriate for a Fandom project. Red Phoenix ^talk 13:47, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Exactly this. Sergecross73 msg me 15:05, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Good point. When I said wiki-worthy, I meant that I had found info regarding her concept/creation, history, appearances, and design. I'll see if I can dig up some more sources. NintenBOUND (talk) 22:47, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I have assembled a list of references/links for Sally that do not come from an episode/book/comic book/listicle, if anyone is interested:

• https://www.andrews.edu/~drazen/MiniSal.txt
• https://warpsonic.tripod.com/pendersint.html
• https://www.deviantart.com/jongraywb/art/Sonic-the-Hedgehog-134-Page-18-AKA-The-Slap-373104267
• https://www.andrews.edu/~drazen/sonfaqs.html
• https://web.archive.org/web/20200531201030/https://twitter.com/IanFlynnBKC/status/889745270279475200
• https://web.archive.org/web/20000305091228/http://archiecomics.com/sonic/allabout.html
• https://web.archive.org/web/20160208002318/http://www.bumbleking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8626&start=30
• https://web.archive.org/web/20151102151156/http://www.bumbleking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7879&start=105
• https://web.archive.org/web/20101224212921/http://www.archiecomics.com/blog/sonic/2010/07/
• https://web.archive.org/web/20200407204304/https://twitter.com/benbatesart/status/1247625791149617153
• https://web.archive.org/web/20201101162115/https://twitter.com/IanFlynnBKC/status/1288252914180513792
• https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/character/49138/sally-acorn
• https://www.saturdaymorningsonic.com/features/freedom_fighters/
• https://collider.com/best-kath-soucie-voice-roles/
• https://archive.is/6VoWi

Most of these are reliable sources, though I am suspect of a few; the saturdaymorningsonic.com feature was thoroughly researched, so I have no concern about that. Are these enough sources to viably constitute an article? NintenBOUND (talk) 00:44, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

One more reference. https://www.saturdaymorningsonic.com/features/continuity/ NintenBOUND (talk) 22:13, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

I'd recommend looking into WP:VG/S, which will tell you many examples of usable and unusable sources. Additionally, to aid in proving whether an article should have its own article, you should find articles that discuss Sally on significant detail, not just passing mentions and name dropping. Sergecross73 msg me 00:51, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I tried to narrow down the articles I had on hand, and I've tried to use the Situational Sources for Video Games search engine, but I've found very little beyond what I already know. Unless more sources can be found, these are all the Sally sources I've got. If no more progress can be made, then her page's prospects might just be dead. NintenBOUND (talk) 00:41, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

NintenBOUND, to expand on Sergecross73's comments for a minute, what you have here has some passing mentions in the sources that are reliable, but also a lot of sources that are not. This is not significant coverage. To demonstrate:

• It is extremely rare for forum posts to be reliable sources. Usually that's only if the poster is verified to be a primary source, which cannot be used to demonstrate notability, as notability exclusively is proven through secondary sources, i.e. publications not associated with a topic talking about that topic. (Coindicentally, Wikipedia and encyclopedias in general are tertiary sources, reporting what is said in secondary sources).
• On that same token, anything from Archie Comics or their blog is similarly a primary source. Anything posted on Twitter by a writer would be the same as well.
• The Giant Bomb link is from their wiki, meaning it's user-generated and is not a reliable source.
• The IGN article isn't even actually about Sally; it's about someone trying to save memorabilia from an amusement park.
• Behind the Voice Actors declares in its statement at the bottom it's an "unofficial site". While not a guarantee in and of itself, that suggests to me it's a fansite, which would not be reliable. Sites written by professional journalists are one thing; sites by fans are another.
• The Screenrant source focuses exclusively on an in-universe focus of the plot, not about the character herself.
• Although hosted on a .edu site, the Andrews sources look like a fan blog.
• None of the rest, most of which look to be unreliable (i.e. like DeviantArt) seem to be focused on Sally herself.

So essentially, it's a nice bit of research but it's not notability. Here are some examples of what a reliable secondary source that confers notability would look like:

• A review of the character and her importance to the series and beyond, that is not part of a listicle.
• A feature from a reliable website such as those listed at WP:VG/S on the character, including information on their development and creation.
• Less so, but an interview with a character designer or writer on one of those reliable secondary sites talking in-depth about the character.

Hope that helps. Good hunting. Red Phoenix ^talk 00:42, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to respond. The Andrews sources were written by a long-time reviewer of the Archie Sonic comics named Dan Drazen, who regularly communicated with Ken Penders (one of the writers for the comic), and the DeviantArt post was made by Jon Gray, a former artist of the comic who responded to controversy over a panel he drew in issue 134 (referenced to as "The Slap"). NintenBOUND (talk) 19:47, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but unfortunately, everything Red Phoenix says is true. Sorry, as far as Wikpedia standards go, I don't think anything here would count towards notability. I think this is one of those cases where there's a reason why an article doesn't already exist. It might be more realistic to either expand any pre-existing sections she may have on Wikipedia, or find a Sonic fan wikia that doesn't have our stricter notability standards and write about her there... Sergecross73 msg me 17:26, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

NintenBOUND, to respond to a couple of your points, who is Dan Drazen? Even if he regularly talked with a writer, is Drazen a writer for a noteworthy publication like a professional comics website? Just because he states he has spoken regularly with a writer doesn’t mean his words automatically get considered as fact or reliable; establishing he’s a professional journalist or industry veteran or something would do that. On the DeviantArt, even if it’s by a former artist, that still makes it a primary source and not a reliable secondary source that confers notability. Red Phoenix ^talk 20:49, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I knew the article was pretty much dead in the water for a while, but I still kept holding out for a potential way to viably create it. Know that I know that it probably has no real chance of happening (I've looked everywhere for reliable secondary sources to no avail), I can put this topic to rest. Thanks for messaging with me about it. NintenBOUND (talk) 00:05, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Dan was a librarian in his 40s when he started reviewing the Sonic Archie comics. He grew so prominent in the Sonic fan community that he became an official reviewer for the series at Archie (for a matter of months), though I understand why he would not be considered outright authority on any info that he might have gleamed. As for the article, I'm going to retire any chances of creating it; as as far as I know, there aren't really any reliable, secondary sources for the character in question. Thanks for helping me with sourcing references for articles in general and messaging me about this one. NintenBOUND (talk) 00:10, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Amy/Metal Sonic articles?

Now that I'm putting my ill-fated Sally article to rest, I was wondering whether there were enough sources/references to constitute any articles for these two. I've already cobbled together character info box images for them both, but I'd like to know whether their articles would be appropriate before I begin drafting anything concrete for them. NintenBOUND (talk) 00:13, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I've done research on Metal Sonic before, and there is next to nothing on that guy, unfortunately. Amy I think is highly possible but I haven't done a thorough enough search to be sure. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 00:20, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I can dig up links later, but both got merged/deleted due to notability problems in the past. Sergecross73 msg me 01:03, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I kinda have to agree with Pokelego that I do think Amy Rose is a possibility, but that it absolutely needs the sourcing first. If I have time I’d absolutely be interested in digging up the sources, but I don’t specialize in fictional characters and I have a high bar for what I believe a fictional character needs to be notable, so I would want to work with others if I find enough to believe it would work. Red Phoenix ^talk 15:59, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I do believe Amy was closer than most of the others that got merged back, and she's been more present in the games that have been released in the last 5 or so years, so I could see a path there. I'd help review whatever too. Sergecross73 msg me 16:10, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I'll do some digging. Let's see if we can make this work. NintenBOUND (talk) 14:37, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry for taking so long. Found these links:

https://thedirect.com/article/sonic-3-movie-amy-rose-trailer

https://gamerant.com/sonic-games-amy-rose-obsessive-leader-friend-female-role-model-good-why/

https://gamerant.com/sonic-the-hedgehog-2023-amy-rose-focus-frontiers-leaks-merchandise-cd-anniversary/

https://www.thegamer.com/sonic-3-amy/

https://gamerant.com/sonic-the-hedgehog-amy-rose-solo-game/

https://gamerant.com/sonic-origins-cd-amy-rose-problematic-playable-characters-dlc/

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/06/random-amy-is-no-longer-the-damsel-in-distress-in-sonic-origins-plus-clip

https://gonintendo.com/contents/12311-sonic-frontiers-cut-dialogue-points-to-sonic-wanting-a-relationship-with-amy

https://gamerant.com/sonic-superstars-amy-rose-gameplay-comparison-origins-frontiers/

https://thenaturalaristocrat.com/2019/11/21/anime-nyc-2019-lisa-ortiz-talks-amy-rose-voice-acting-interview/

https://insider-gaming.com/amy-rose-sonic-frontiers/

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2023/06/random-amy-is-no-longer-the-damsel-in-distress-in-sonic-origins-plus-clip

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2024/04/sonic-superstars-exclusive-amy-rose-outfit-available-in-new-collaboration

https://www.shacknews.com/article/136052/sonic-superstars-free-amy-rose-dlc-newsletter

https://www.destructoid.com/sonic-frontiers-the-final-horizon-update-trailer-shows-off-tails-amy-and-knuckles/

https://gaming-age.com/2023/07/sonic-origins-plus-review-for-nintendo-switch-pc-xbox-playstation/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by NintenBOUND (talk • contribs) 13:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

And those are just the ones that have been archived within the past few years! NintenBOUND (talk) 15:29, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Have you checked this list against WP:VG/S...? Sergecross73 msg me 15:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Of the sources you listed, Nintendo Life is the only one we regard as reliable JOEBRO⁶⁴ 12:41, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, shoot. I'll reduce it and come back later. (If I can.) NintenBOUND (talk) 13:55, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

It’s only a situational source and would really need proper scrutiny (and pairing with actually reliable sources), but stuff like the second link up there to GameRant is the kind of stuff I’d like to see when finding notability about Amy Rose. An article focused on her, and I’ve often thought there must be things like this written about her role as a female video game character, from damsel-in-distress to what she does from Sonic Adventure onward where she has a more regular role. I would be highly curious if any video game magazines have taken off with this idea before. Red Phoenix ^talk 16:43, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

So now I'm debating something. I'm looking at [1], which is the last version of the Amy Rose article that someone tried to post. I actually think a lot could be accomplished here by taking the scissors to this version instead of the pen, cutting out the fancrufty bits and focusing on some of the really good stuff - concept and creation which does have some basic reliable sourcing, stripping the bio and plot stuff down to the basics while mentioning how her character has evolved in different games and media, and remove the listicle-based crap from the reception and focus on commentary about her and her role as a female video game character, which also looks like it has some reliable sourcing -- there's even a bit about her progression in the TV shows being "woke", which is an interesting take. Anything based to a Valnet source will need further scrutiny as well, but I think I might sandbox this as a "scissors test" and see how people feel about it then. Red Phoenix ^talk 00:54, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Nice. If you want any more references, I added more links to my list up above; let me know if I need to trim any unnecessary/unworkable ones off. There's also some more links in NatwonTSG2's sandbox (which listed some Big/Amy/Sage/Silver references links) that was in an earlier talk for this article. NintenBOUND (talk) 14:40, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for mentioning me and showing how an Amy Rose article would work but however, it just that Sonic is a series that's many editors, including me has been creating many terrible articles for multiple Sonic characters who likely never getting its own article. For Metal Sonic, well @TheJoebro64 had a draft for Metal Sonic which could become an article of it own so no worry, but for Amy Rose, based on Joebro64 and @Red Phoenix opinion on your references list and multiple merge and de-merge decsion, an article for her is more likely never going to existed unless if you pay close attention to how other video game characters, especially Dragon Quest characters get their own articles so. NatwonTSG^TALK 03:05, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS; it’s not about the series or the characters’ importance to it. It’s about how well covered is that character in reliable sources. Personally I use a method I developed to determine if an article is warranted or not. For Amy, I’m on the fence as I look at it, but I see some good stuff. So, I’m at the part where I would build it as a draft (probably a user space draft in this case) and see if it feels like it’s well-supported without fluff and with relying on good secondary sources. Fluff is really an enemy here: how much are you really saying? Because plot summaries say little to nothing in the way of why a character is notable.

That said, I think if I do draft this out and take the scissors to it, I would call upon other members of the community to review it, as this currently does have consensus against reinstatement as it is. Red Phoenix ^talk 12:41, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Exactly all of this. Sergecross73 msg me 13:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I created info-box character images for both prospective Amy/Metal Sonic pages a while ago; how can I show them to you for evaluation? NintenBOUND (talk) 15:15, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Creating things in a WP:USERDRAFT or a WP:SANDBOX area and then linking to them are common ways. Sergecross73 msg me 15:19, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Honestly, I don’t think info box images are really our concern right now until there’s proof it’s article-worthy. As a (self-published) fantasy fiction author, I wouldn’t do the cover art without having written the book first. Red Phoenix ^talk 16:14, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

As a (hopefully) fledgling writer, I understand. On an unrelated topic, what works have you written? NintenBOUND (talk) 01:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay, so I've created a userspace draft at User:Red Phoenix/sandbox/Amy Rose and will apply scissors to it soon. For those who have been around a while, I also had a good look at the promoted GA version of this article here, and my heart kind of sank when I realized this was a Tezero creation, for anyone who remembers the Wisp (Sonic) fiasco. Tezero was a good editor and one I worked with a lot; he just had a bad propensity with fictional characters to add a ton of fluff cited directly to the games or comics. But, I'll look at that as well and compare with the most recent version, which originally was a sandbox by (Oinkers42) and see if we can cut and meld and try to make something work here. If it doesn't, we know then we need more sources, and if they can't be found, then we can put this to bed. But hopefully, and I think this may happen, we can shape something out of it.

Anyone and everyone is invited to edit the userspace draft; I only put it in userspace since we're skeptical if it's going to work or not and I can always WP:U1 it if it doesn't work. We can also discuss the edits itself at WT:SEGA so we don't have to clutter this page up any more than necessary and it can go back to focusing on this list article instead of talking about another potential article - it's not like the Sega task force's talk page is being used for much else these days :-( . I invite everyone interested in discussing a potential Amy Rose article further there. Red Phoenix ^talk 01:00, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Scratch, Grounder, & Coconuts

Sorry for adding a section on these three without discussion, if it was not acceptable or warranted. I will delete it if anyone has an issue with it. NintenBOUND (talk) 17:59, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm just gonna park this here...

Anyone who attempts a Sonic game has a duty to create new characters, so we shall have a go at one or two.

Yu Suzuki

Wanted to save this. I mentioned that at some point I'd love to try and add a section about the criticism of the number of characters specifically, and this is a great quote from the other side of things. I'd remembered seeing this before and I don't want to lose it, but I can't link the magazine itself since that's a copyright violation. Red Phoenix ^talk 21:31, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

Pachacamac

What's about Pachacamac? Why isn't the character not in in this list? He can in this list, I suppose. KimKelting (talk) 16:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Check the inclusion criteria at the top of the page. Sergecross73 msg me 16:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Pachacamac is right on the line, teetering precariously between admissible and inadmissible. He's a decently important part of the Sonic Adventure backstory, but he didn't appear in any other games (outside of brief passing mentions in Chronicles and Unleashed). He shows up in comics and Sonic X, but only in the Sonic Adventure adaptations. There's a few good secondary sources, but they're all focused on his appearance in two episodes of the Knuckles show. Given all the criteria, I think he's not quite there yet, especially given the likes of Gerald and Maria only barely made it in, and they have even more to work with than he does; it would probably take a physical appearance in another game to push him over the line. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 18:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)

Not Orbot in Sonic Unleashed

According to the sources in Sonic News Network, the robot who assisted Eggman in Sonic Unleashed is not Orbot. He is another character named SA-55. He may have similar shape, but he is still not Orbot. Iago PUC (talk) 00:49, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

We need a better source than a fansite. Unless the original claim is unsourced, in which the whole thing should be removed on those grounds. Sergecross73 msg me 01:27, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

The "Orbot" in Unleashed is officially SA-55. It's confirmed in the official Sonic Encyclospeedia too that he's Orbot's predecessor. Tribal-Mand0 (talk) 17:14, 25 October 2024 (UTC)