Talk:La Sierra University

Chinese Characters

User "Chinese Graduate" added to this site. I am no Chinese language expert, but what was added, 拉西瑞亞大學 , translated as Selassie University of Liberia in the Google Translator from Chinese to English. Is this a problem with the translator, or were the wrong characters posted? Djneufville (talk) 01:11, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Lasierra.gif

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Evolution letter

I removed a long letter from the article becuase it isn't encyclopedic content. If there are reliable sources that describe this controversy then let's summarize the matter.   Will Beback  talk  21:07, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

As a general rule, I take any additions from IP addresses only as suspect. If there are additions to this page, please at least log in with a verified account. And let's keep the content relevant, please. Dustinjones (talk) 00:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Evolution Links

There seems to be a growing vandalism problem with trying to promote a private site external to LSU. I just rolled back three edits by an IP address that are links to that site. I noticed in the history that this is not the first--or even second or third--time this has happened. This needs to stop. Perhaps this article should be placed under admin protection for a little while until things simmer down? Brianweedster (talk) 06:29, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Origins Controversy

I fail to see how this is notable. The fact that a few thousand people unrelated to a University and a organizational body unrelated to it dislike it doesn't seem to be notable. Also even if notable, the section is written in a way that at least to me seems to express support for the dissenters which is not encyclopedic.WikiManOne (talk) 02:17, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

===2009 teaching of origins controversy===

In 2009, a graduate of La Sierra created an online petition to protest the perceived teaching of evolution in biology classes at the university. He called for the firing of several biology professors at the university. The petition, which contained over five thousand signatures, was delivered to the university's board of trustees. The university responded by endorsing Adventist creationist beliefs and requested that a new curriculum for the biological sciences be created by Adventist institutions that would include scientific support for the Adventist belief of a literal interpretation of the Genesis creation narrative. In 2010, the executive committee of the Michigan Conference, the governing organization for the church in the U.S. state of Michigan, voted to no longer provide tuition aid for Michigan Conference employees and their families who attend La Sierra. The committee claimed that La Sierra had committed apostasy.

Notability does not apply to article content. Reverted. --TorriTorri(^talk/_contribs) 04:26, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, I tried to write the passage as neutrally as possible. If there's a way to make it more neutral, feel free to have at it =) --TorriTorri(^talk/_contribs) 04:38, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

The controversy should remain out of the article until the rest of it is developed. Unless this is done, it would be WP:UNDUE. I would also be concerned as to whether mentioning this is giving undue weight to WP:FRINGE viewpoints, although the reliable sources covering the incident would probably cover that. _WM^O _{Please leave me a wb if you reply} 08:34, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Rather than blank the section of concern, which sweeps the issue under the rug, I've restored it and moved it down in the article. It is tagged as "undue". (PS: I hope editors will note that the Press-Enterprise is a WP:RS. With this in mind, I don't think WP:FRINGE applies.)--S. Rich (talk) 15:42, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Why was this deleted again?   Will Beback  talk  04:50, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

This issue was also covered in two long articles in Inside Higher Ed: "Creating Controversy" September 1, 2009 and "Creation and Accreditation" April 12, 2011. The first of those articles received nationwide attention: I see a report on it in the Madison (Wiscosin) Capital Times. So this matter was not just local kerfuffle.   Will Beback  talk  06:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

At this point, I have nothing against summarizing the controversy. It has grown much bigger than when it was first added and the above comments were made. However, I think that in order to not give undue weight to this small portion of the institution's history, we should focus on providing information about other aspects of the school first and then re-add the section. As it was, the article gave almost as much information about the controversy as it did to the institution's entire 89 year history! I plan to do my best to expand this school's article in the upcoming weeks/months, hopefully others will help, and once it has been filled out, I will have no objections to inserting the information. BelloWello (talk) 06:46, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

The reason that this material deserves space in the article is that it is undoubtedly one of the only things that's ever happened there which has attracted this much attention. Let's restore it and look forward to your further improvements to the article as they come.   Will Beback  talk  08:15, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Why not start up an article giving the history of the origins controversy at LSU. A paragraph in the main article can summarize the key points and a link to the origins article can be put right under the subsection just before the paragraph mentioned. This is done quite often and the balance of the article remains intact. As an example, I enjoy doing detailed history, but if I do that in an article on something it does not take long for my historical section dominates the other sections lengthwise. This is how I decided to do separate wiki articles on history of the subject of interest. DonaldRichardSands (talk) 11:40, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

While the controversy is notable in the context of LSU, it is not notable enough for an independent article. Further, this article isn't very long so there's little impetus to split off a portion. Since I last posted here I came across another news story that said it was a major factor in the school's last accreditation review. So it does have importance in respect to the school itself. I see there's also a link to an article an Adventist website about the dispute.[1] It looks like the material could be re-written and expanded.   Will Beback  talk  12:03, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

I've added a fresh draft of the material. There's more yet to add, but I think we can keep it to one long paragraph in length.   Will Beback  talk  12:58, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Will, I have no problem with your new version of the section. I'll try to work on expanding the article. BelloWello (talk) 16:32, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

References

World Museum of Natural History -- Palm Springs ??

I've hidden this info with an editors comment. The sources (one of which I provided) are dated 2007. But there is no updated info on the facility and this website http://www.lasierra.edu/index.php?id=2289 indicates the museum is currently located in Riverside. (Note the 2010 copyright for this page vice the 2007 copyright on the reference pages for the Palm Springs "facility".) --S. Rich (talk) 05:24, 27 February 2011 (UTC)05:25, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Merge La Sierra University Presidents into this page

This article is fairly short so I don't see a need for a separate list of presidents. I propose we merge it into this article.   Will Beback  talk  00:05, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose - If we included the list in the article, we would have a situation where roughly half the article consists of a list of Presidents. Rather than try to increase the size of the article by adding lists, we should try to increase the prose. BelloWello (talk) 00:17, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

For the list to remain as a standalone list, it needs to be notable in its own right.   Will Beback  talk  00:37, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I think it falls under the same notability as List of The College of William & Mary presidents, List of Centre College presidents, List of Presidents of Pikeville College, etc. There seems to be a working exception to notability rules on lists of college presidents. It's something that people interested in a school may want to know but that you wouldn't want clogging up the main article. BelloWello (talk) 00:49, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

The question isn't whether those articles exist, but whether any of them have survived AFDs. WP:UNIGUIDE says:

• Separate articles explaining a college or university's history (History of Texas A&M University), campus (Campus of Michigan State University), and alumni (List of Athabasca University people — see lists guideline above) must still fulfill the notability policy of receiving significant coverage in reliable sources independent of the university. Such articles are generally notable only at large institutions or institutions where one of these aspects is especially important or significant.

I only see a single source for this list.   Will Beback  talk  01:05, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

At the present, only a single source is given. However, the documentation for each of these presidents is available to us at Adventist Archives. It is simply a matter of expending the effort to locate the source documents and cite them in this article. We have a powerful historical resource in Adventist Archives. We have only just begun. DonaldRichardSands (talk) 07:12, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

I'm looking forward to reading biographies if each one. Since there's opposition and a commitment to improve the material, I'll remove the tags.   Will Beback  talk  08:45, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

• Perhaps it is still too early to merge the articles. I think once we have added more content as BelloWello suggests, then it would make good sense. Most of what we do on wikipedia can be compared to first, second, and third drafts, or so it seems. DonaldRichardSands (talk) 00:20, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
• Support. The list is short enough to be included here. In addition, the background material on List of presidents of La Sierra University overlaps the background information presented here. The background information on the List article also has better references, which can be used to clean up this page's "citations needed" tag. Yoninah (talk) 15:07, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

• All of the articles are going to be expanded. The user suggesting the merge had removed the tags pending this. 17:13, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

educatetruth.com

• Instructor videos and letters documenting evolutionary teachings at La Sierra University and a timeline of the controversy have been documented by a site called educatetruth.com.
  • http://www.educatetruth.com/the-history/

This appears to be a two-person blog, a self-published source. We don't generally link to those or use them as sources. Any other thoughts about it?   Will Beback  talk  23:14, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Agree. Totally discredited source. They posted similar stuff about PUC and were promptly shown to be completely out of line. bW 03:54, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

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