Talk:Kingdom of Essex

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IF ANYONE CAN FIND OUT THE ??? queries i would be thankful. -- Fonzy

ÆSCVVINE CENFVSING

Can someone please explain the discrepancy with this patronymic CENFVSING? Who was CENFVS? Æscwine's father was OFFA according to the genealogies. Cenfus seems a far cry from Offa. Shouldn't his patronymic be OFFING or OFFAING? Æscing (talk) 08:57, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Saelred

I can only find a few (often leading back to Wikipedia) references to this king being called Saelred. It seems much more widely accepted (eg in the DNB) for him to be known as Selered. I can also find no source for the assertion that he is known as Swebert. Can someone enlighten me please?--Silver149 16:07, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

He is known as Saelred on this page: [1] and I can see it dotted around a few other places on the net. Interestingly that page gives totally different dates for the start of his reign - though both agree that he died in 746. The AKA was added by user:JohnArmagh in this revision: [2] not sure what his source was, he doesn't say in the edit comment box MrWeeble 22:08, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Apologies - I have now added the sources - both of which show the detail in question. I have also changed the <thorn> and <eth> back to þ and ð because the thorn and eth were displaying incorrectly on my PC and I couldn't get them to display properly so I think that others may experience the same problem. --JohnArmagh 19:56, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. Can you give any more detail about a primary source for the Swebert reference - ie does either book provide a reference to source documentation. I ask because I can find no details elsewhere and this is the first I have heard of it. Certainly Barbara Yorke in Kings and kingdoms of early Anglo-Saxon England (1990 rev 1997) publ Routledge does not mention it - and this is usually seen as one of the primary books on the subject. (Yorke is Professor of Early Medieval History at University of Winchester). The references to Saelred as a spelling for Selered also seem to be limited and mainly derive from sites associated with David Nash Ford. Again can you provide any detail on this derivation of the name? --Silver149 16:15, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I have to say that I think it is more likely that it was the name Swaefbert which was sometimes rendered 'Swebert', which seems more likely than Saelred, but I can't find a source which says so. It appears from information such as http://www.geocities.com/meister_z/ANSAXNVA.htm that Swebert was used (and this source also uses Saelred for Selered) - but here it is as an alternative to Swaefbert, as I assert. In all likelihood the two sources I quote are mistaken in their text. --JohnArmagh 17:09, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

Map discussion

Yorkshirian recently added this new version of an old map to this article; it was removed by Deacon of Pndapetzim and re-added by Yorkshirian. I'd like to replace it with this map instead, which doesn't use boundaries. The changes were made to several articles, so to centralize discussion, please post at Talk:Mercia#Map if you have an opinion. Mike Christie (talk) 02:41, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Flag

File:Flag of Essex.svg is the current logo of the Essex council. It is a complete anachronism in this article. If there is any reference to a flag used by the kings of Essex in the Anglo-Saxon period, let's see it.

Half a minute of googling provides me with a plausible scenario:

Although three seaxes on a red field are often quoted as the arms of the of the kings of the East Saxons, heraldry as we know it was not established until the early twelfth century, and it is probably due to the fanciful and romantic minds of early historians and heraldic writers in the late sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries that 'arms' were attributed to the Saxon kings. However badges and emblems have been used by nations, sovereigns and chieftains from earliest times, and perhaps the 'arms' attributed to the Saxon kings by the medieval heralds were based upon some of these badges. The earliest reference the arms of the East Saxon kings was by Richard Verstegan, the author of A Restitution of Decayed Intelligence, printed in Antwerp in 1605. Verstegan gives no authority for his statement "Erkenwyne king of the East-Saxons did beare for his armes, three [seaxes] argent, in a field gules", but there is no reason to doubt that he believed his source was reliable.[3]

The Anglo-Saxon kings didn't use flags in the modern sense. There were "standards" such as the one found in the Sutton Hoo burial, but these were closer to tribal totems than to heraldry. --dab (𒁳) 09:00, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Woden Sceaf Noah

Under origins perhaps put in Woden from Sceaf(Japeth) from Noah to inform the non-specialist of the commonality that exists between most European nations through the sons of Noah (Shem, Ham & Japeth)? See 'After the Flood' by Bill Cooper, New Wine Press, 2005 7kingis (talk) 20:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Kings graphic

For the moment I have removed the Kings graphic which largely duplicates the existing links to other heptarchy articles. Also, its placement caused the layout to look ugly (IMO). Rjm at sleepers (talk) 07:24, 20 December 2013 (UTC)