Talk:King asleep in mountain

Nonsense

Removed the following; "Many Irish nationalists in Northern Ireland believe that Cu Chulainn will awaken from a long slumber of death and lead the Irish people in a final battle against the British government of Northern Ireland and the Orange Order." They clearly don't believe anything of the sort. If anyone can cite a study showing that anyone believes this, please do so, but they can't because nobody does.

Untitled

I never heard of Teddy Roosevelt returning in glory

This version was told orally at a Corn Island storytelling festival I went to. It was rather clever, I thought; I can't imagine any other US president attaching to this legend. -- Smerdis of Tlön 20:17, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I know it doesn't prove anything, but this page (and the various copies) are the only hit on that story. Can you include more of what the story was about?

Roosevelt gone. Are there other bad examples present? If so, they should probably go too. Kfor 14:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Who is the original sleeping hero...?

This article states Frederick Barbarossa is "probably the original". While the article on Frederick Barbarossa states that the the legend is "derived from the much older British Celtic legend of Bran the Blessed".
Interestingly the article on Bran the Blessed doesn't link to the sleeping hero at all. And after reading it I don't understand why it should... okay it has bird, but there is no talk of the hero/king in the mountain (Bran) returning in times of peril. On the other hand we can probably assume that Bran had a beard.
In my opinion the contradiction between the Frederic article and the sleeping hero article should be resolved. Unfortunately I don't have any idea if Barbarossa was the original sleeping hero or not. Or if Bran qualifies as a sleeping hero at all - being only a buried head and all.

It belongs here because the hero is sleeping. I would say its more similar to the story than differant from it.

Before Barbarossa, his grandson Frederick II was subject of the myth. That got changed in the 16th century, I believe. So, he can't be the original.--MacX85 (talk) 06:36, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

I think what's becoming clear is that there is no original sleeping hero. Instead, we have a range of mythic elements: a supposedly hollow mountain; someone asleep, sometimes one person, sometimes several; copious beard-growth, suggestive of a sleep of centuries; the legendary promise of a return when the land is in peril; etc.

Thus we have the Armenian legend of Mher, which has a hollow mountain, but nobody asleep inside; the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus, which has a cave, but no mountain; Rip Van Winkle (or whichever improbable folk-hero Washington Irving based him on), who has an immense beard as a result of the sleep of years; Brân, who has no sleeping body, but a head interred at the Tower of London, and who promises to return if the land has need of him (witness, also, the sign of bird extinction: the legend of ravens departing the Tower of London may be derived from him, since brân means "raven" in Welsh); and many other examples. The apparently typical heroic legend is thus shown to be a composite, not necessarily "faked", but orally edited together by the accidental collaboration of many tongues.

Nuttyskin (talk) 17:26, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Speculation problems

The talk of extinction and conservation in this article seems totally erroneous and unrealted to any real legend.

I agree. The statements seem to have little or no connection to literary theory. I've done some cleaning up and clarifying -- including a "references or sources" tag for the strange myth at the top of the page. It appears to be a hybrid of the myth attributed to Frederick Barbarossa and some wild speculation and assumptions on the author's part. This whole article could use a lot of real critical work done on it to improve the quality. ~CS 21:46, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay, specifically, since Ihcoyc removed the citation tag without addressing the problem: The final paragraphs of the "General features" section appear to be quoting a specific text of the Frederick Barbarossa version of this motif. But it is applying this text to speak generally about "King in the mountain" folktales. As far as I can tell, most of the content of these paragraphs are not accurate when speaking about this type of legend generally. I'm not knowledgable enough on the topic to fix it, but it either needs to be fixed & rewritten, eliminated, or sourced. Until then the unsourced tag stays (unless you'd prefer a 'factual accuracy' tag.) ~CS 21:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

It is my understanding that the Barbarossa version is the most well known and typical version of the story, and the model for most others. Perhaps all that is required for the time being is a note that it is in fact the Barbarossa version. Smerdis of Tlön 03:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I removed the following sentence from the Examples section:

The motif combines the idea of a supernatural national defender with the concept of conservation.

I couldn't find any source for this statement, and the notion that the originators of this tale might have created it with any thought of conservation in a modern sense seems so improbable that that I couldn't justify leaving it in. I've moved it here just in case someone can find a proper source for this assertion. —CKA3KA (Skazka) (talk) 18:11, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Dracula?!

Besides the 2001 novel listed and the movie Dark Prince: The True Story of Dracula (which leads one to question Thomas Baum's defintion of True) is there any other source that claims that Vlad III is waiting to return?

Yes, it is, the poem Scrisoarea a III-a (The Third Letter) by Romanian national poet Mihai Eminescu. In this poem, the author expresses his desire for the Voivode to return so that he would arrest all corrupt and/or otherwise detrimental people in Romania and divide them in 2 groups: "crazy people" and "traitors"; and afterwards to set fire to the prison and to the "nuthouse". Basically, Mihai Eminescu had the fault of being very passionate politically and he would have liked nothing less than seeing the politicians he despised (the Liberals; Eminescu sympathised with the Conservatives) impaled... Now, there is and has always been the general hope or desire among the Romanian people for "Tepes" (the Impaler) to return and to end the never-ending ever-lasting and all-powerful corruption in Romania, preferrably bringing the corrupt politicians and officials to a gruesome end. Any Romanian toady will tell you this, it's a general feeling. However, people think of this more as of a metaphor, they all know that Tepes won't return in flesh since he's dead, but they'd like for another leader that would use his methods to come and end the stealing and the corruption. That's the basic idea. Now, since corruption was in Romania a central part of life and society since... well pretty much since the 15th-16th century, here's the explanation for this general feeling. Oh, one more thing... There's absolutely no legend or even remote hope that St. Steven the Great (Stefan cel Mare) would return. Stefan cel Mare is viewed more as a "Founding Father" figure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.124.35.173 (talk) 08:53, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Giant portion of article taken from The Hero With a Thousand Faces

It's copied verbatim from Joseph Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.37.211 (talk • contribs)

Could you point out the specific lines that are the problem? I'd like to see this fixed. ~CS 05:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I think we need to deal with this. This would be a SERIOUS copyright violoation, has it been fixed since December? Goldenrowley 22:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merge

The material from the article King under the Mountain, which is about an example of the motif discussed in King in the mountain, should be merged here.--ShelfSkewed Talk 05:35, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. I wouldn't expect there to be much opposition to this, so go ahead. 69.143.43.170 (talk) 20:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

done--Lopakhin (talk) 18:03, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Actually, this should NOT have been done, and represents a conflation of mythological themes of which Professor Tolkien would have been ashamed. His Dwarven "King under the Mountain" is a royal title, and is not at all related to the Sleeping Hero motif. The names are similar; that is all. I've removed the overly-detailed Tolkien material. If King under the Mountain indeed deserves its own article -- and with The Hobbit film coming out, it may well draw enough interest for one -- it ought to be restored to what is now the redirect page. 192.91.147.34 (talk) 04:42, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

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Tolkien

Look, I like Tolkien as much as the next geek, but it says outright that the kings of Erebor have nothing to do with the subject of the article. It's nothing but fanboyism to add the ENTIRE LINE of "Kings Under the Mountain" here. I cut the whole Tolkien section, and moved the actually relevant part to the proper section. 192.91.147.34 (talk) 04:10, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Moon Hitler

Would Adolf Hitler hiding on the moon with his Nazis quality as this trope? I’m pretty sure that almost nobody actually takes the theory seriously but it has entered our culture enough for many people to recognize it. Da Bomb76 (talk) 20:53, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

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Jesus

Would jesus' death, resurrection and second coming count? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C6:B613:C800:6C3C:72D8:2EC1:266F (talk) 18:32, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Unsourced entries

So many of the entries are unsourced and may as well be plain speculation. I'm Spanish and I've never heard if a king under the mountain myth for Boabdil, Pelayo, and Rodrigo (at most, that the latter survived the battle and became a hermit in a mountain, not that he will come back one day from it). Menah the Great (talk) 13:59, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Fairly common. I'm from cheshire and I hadn't heard of the knights at alderly edge until I started digging and now theres lots of evidence I can see. I think it's just generally a case of native and local folklore being lost with the growth on homogenised culture DParkinson1 (talk) 18:52, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Teracotta Army?

This page seems to also be including instances of sleeping armies, which is good. This does raise the question as to whether or not we should include the terracotta army? It's a massive, very real army designed to lay dormant under mounds of earth. Surely that's fairly on point for this page? DParkinson1 (talk) 18:59, 4 October 2024 (UTC)