Talk:Kōzan-ji

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. I thought this was an easy move based on the temple's URL, but a search in the web and in Google books leads to just result after result with the z. Even Google's result for the temple's site itself is titled with a z even though the url uses an s. I believe you, Jfriedl, that visiting the location in person would hear the s, but WP:COMMONNAME goes with the rest of the world: "Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources." Regrets. Redirects (and hatnotes from Kōsan-ji) can help with the official names. JHunterJ (talk) 19:24, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

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Requested move

Kōzan-ji → Kōsan-ji relisted--Mike Cline (talk) 12:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• The temple's name is 「こうさんじ」, not the 「こうざんじ」that most Japanese would suppose at first glance. The temple uses "Kosanji" as its romanization, though that becomes "Kōsan-ji" within Wikipedia conventions for display of Japanese with roman letters. The name, in Japanese and romanized, is apparent on their home page: http://www.kosanji.com/ User:Jfriedl 06:09, 29 December 2011‎ (UTC)
• The 2 kana names transcribe as "kousanzi" and "kouzanzi". Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:42, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
• The こうざんじ reading is affirmed in all Japanese dictionaries and encyclopedias, including Japanese Wikipedia until Jfriedl changed it there without discussion. These sources include Kojien, Daijirin, Daijisen, Nikkoku, 国史大辞典, Encyclopedia Nipponica. こうざんじ is also how it is known in English guidebooks (e.g. http://wikitravel.org/en/Kyoto/North) and on the UNESCO World Heritage List (http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/688), and it's therefore the name most likely to be looked up by an English user. None of these sources list as こうさんじ. Both names for the temple are correct, but a name change for the article is inappropriate. Bueller 007 (talk) 07:16, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

• We're talking about the proper name for a specific temple, and it's clear from the temple's web site, and from visiting the location in person, that its name is read 「こうさんじ」. How is this even up for discussion? It's their name. Their name is not read「こうざんじ」, though I'm sure that there are many 「高山寺」temples that are. But *this* article is not about them, it's about the specific 高山寺 up in Takao. And its name is read 「こうさんじ」. This is a matter of fact, not opinion.

Jfriedl (talk) 12:00, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

• And the dictionary and encyclopedia articles I've listed above are all written specifically about the "高山寺 up in Takao" as well, so your complaint makes no sense whatsoever. That temple is known as こうざんじ to EVERYONE, including all of the sources I've listed above. NOBODY calls it こうさんじ, although that may be the official preference of the temple itself. Bueller 007 (talk) 17:47, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

• I see my mistake now, sorry. I thought the article about the temple should be the name of the temple and not a mistake, however well enshrined. My mistake was in thinking that Wikipedia's bias toward fact also applied to the title, but I see now that the naming guidelines clearly are biased toward "naturalness". The body of the article should be updated to reflect reality (the reality that most everyone gets the name wrong in Japanese, and that mistake has been reflected in English as well), but according to Wikipedia's title policy, the incorrect name should stand as the title. I withdraw the move request with apologies. Jfriedl (talk) 01:08, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

• Support. The temple's official website supports the "Kōsan-ji" reading. --DAJF (talk) 05:48, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
• Comment There is already a different article at Kōsan-ji. The destination of this move would need to be qualified, e.g., Kōsan-ji (temple), if carried out. -- JHunterJ (talk) 16:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

• Relisting comment an admin who reads and understands Japanese needs to deal with this one. --Mike Cline (talk) 12:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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