Talk:July 2022 Chasiv Yar missile strike
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Casualties
editVolunteer_Marek, the source talks specifically about military casualties
- "Ми вже повідомляли, що внаслідок ракетного удару, завданого окупантами 9 липня по містечку Часів Яр на Донеччині, загинули бійці з нашого краю."
- "Як повідомили у Чортківській міській раді, на Донеччині загинули стрільці-санітари стрілецького батальйону Сергій Михайлович Миськів (1969 р.н.) і Сергій Іванович Басістий (1975 р.н.)." Alaexis¿question? 07:02, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
- First sentence says that they've previously informed on killed fighters. Nobody is disputing that. But it doesn't say that the four it's referring to later in the article were soldiers. It calls them residents. мешканців
- The second sentence does indeed refer to soldiers but it refers to TWO soldiers, not FOUR. These are the two presumably already mentioned in the sentence already in the article. Volunteer Marek 07:07, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
Let's look at it in detail
| “ | Ми вже повідомляли, що внаслідок ракетного удару, завданого окупантами 9 липня по містечку Часів Яр на Донеччині, загинули бійці з нашого краю. Зокрема, шестеро тернополян та троє мешканців Бережанської громади. | ” |
Here they say that they previously reported that 9 (шестеро+троє) fighters were killed in the attack on Chasiv Yar.
| “ | Тепер стало відомо про ще щонайменше чотирьох загиблих мешканців Тернопільщини. Двоє з них – чортків’яни. Ще двоє проживали у Бучацькій та Монастириській територіальній громадах. Як повідомили у Чортківській міській раді, на Донеччині загинули стрільці-санітари стрілецького батальйону Сергій Михайлович Миськів (1969 р.н.) і Сергій Іванович Басістий (1975 р.н.)." | ” |
Here they say that at least four more (ще щонайменше чотирьох) residents were killed, and two of these four were soldiers, and one more is shown in military uniform. So at least 9+2=11 soldiers from Ternopil were killed in the attack. This is significant additional information which is not found in the NYT article. Alaexis¿question? 07:12, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
- It does not say that "at least 11 soldiers from Ternopil were killed" in THIS attack. That's WP:SYNTH. What it's saying is that PREVIOUSLY reported on OTHER soldiers from Ternopil killed. Here, regarding THIS attack, it was just 2. Volunteer Marek 20:46, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
- Routine calculations do not constitute a violation of WP:SYNTH (WP:CALC). It doesn't matter that it's a summary of previous reporting. They explicitly say that these 9 servicemen were killed in the same attack. Alaexis¿question? 14:52, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
Categorisation
editKleinpecan, I don't think that this article should be in the war crimes category. WP:CATPOV says
| “ | Categorizations should generally be uncontroversial.... For example, a politician (not convicted of any crime) should not be added to a category of notable criminals.
A central concept used in categorizing articles is that of the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having |
” |
In this case, RS do not commonly and consistently call it a war crime. If there are non-Ukrainian sources that characterise it as such they should be added to the article. Also, this categorisation is controversial. Excluding Russian outlets, there are reports about Ukrainian servicemen being present in the building and killed in the strike. Alaexis¿question? 17:14, 26 July 2022 (UTC)