Talk:Judo at the 2022 Commonwealth Games

Article infobox

@Sportsfan 1234: This discussion follows your recent revert. Please explain the added added value of {{Infobox Commonwealth Games event}} over {{Infobox judo competition event}} for this article. CLalgo (talk) 23:24, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

This is a Commonwealth Games event, hence the use of the Commonwealth Games templates as like EVERY other sport. This is to create uniformity for the said event. I can understand using the Judo infobox for stand alone judo events, but this is not an example of that. Explain why judo should use a separate infobox from all other sports? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:30, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

{{Infobox judo competition event}} supports every functionality of many "games", including Commonwealth. It also adds links to external DB's and, internal linkage and more functionalities you are welcome to read in its documentation. Is there any add value in {{Infobox Commonwealth Games event}} that {{Infobox judo competition event}} lacks? CLalgo (talk) 23:35, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Again, you are not addressing the point(s) I raised and have not answered my question. The Commonwealth Games template is used for Commonwealth Events, which this is. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:40, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Your statement makes no sense. If Infobox judo competition event offers all functionalities, and more, of Infobox Commonwealth Games event — than it shouldn't be used just because it isn't Infobox Commonwealth Games event? CLalgo (talk) 23:42, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

The external links are already linked in the external links section of this article. Again, why should judo use a separate infobox from all other sports and ruin the consistency across the event? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:43, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Because judo has a unique template that offers all "games" functionalities while keeping its own added values. If there is another sport with such a template, it should definitely use its own "games compatible" template. CLalgo (talk) 23:46, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

That doesn't answer the question. Why should the consistency be ruined across the event? This is in foremost a Commonwealth Games event, not a Judo event. Moreover, its a judo event that is a part of the Commonwealth Games, which means the latter takes precedence. What is your compromise in this situation??? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 23:51, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

First, your assertion is absurd, and baseless unless sourced. Second, given 2 templates, one with all functionalities of the other (and more): Why shouldn't the former be used? just because other events can't enjoy these extra functionalities? That doesn't sound right. As for "compromise": I don't see how a compromise could be made when deciding between 2 templates. If you'd like, I can help you create new "games compatible" templates for other sports, to allow them to enjoy more functionalities. But currently, I see no reason why this judo event should use a "weaker" template when it can use one with all relevant functionalities. CLalgo (talk) 23:59, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

I am not sure how my last message can be "sourced". I am asking you a question, which you continue to not answer with a satisfactory answer. Lets say you were to create one for all other sports, then what is the purpose of the Commonwealth Games template? It doesn't make sense to replace single sport templates with one across all sports for multi-sports events. The only difference is a picture of the judo pictogram at the top right corner, which is redundant, because the pictogram for the games is already there. The other difference is the external links, which are linked at the bottom of the page. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:08, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Please look at the code and documentation of both templates. The 2 differences you've pointed are but the tip of the iceberg. The Commonwealth Games template is designed to link from the infobox to the relevant "Country at the YEAR GAMES" article. The judo template does that as well, and more. The Commonwealth Games template should be used for articles otherwise lacking this functionality, but that isn't our case.

Please, read the documentation of both templates and then read their source codes. see all the parameters "judo" has that "commonwealth" lacks. Saying that it's just a pictogram and an extra external link is unserious. CLalgo (talk) 00:16, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Tell me the visual difference between this [1] and [2]. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:21, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

You also haven't answered: ". Lets say you were to create one for all other sports, then what is the purpose of the Commonwealth Games template?" Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:22, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Internal and external links, for once, and that's not even when the whole potential of {{Infobox judo competition event}} is utilized. Read its code. As for the purpose of the Commonwealth Games template: If there'll be better templates that cover all of its functionalities, it wont have any. Currently, most sport don't have such a template. Judo does. CLalgo (talk) 00:41, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Again, the purpose of the Commonwealth Games template is to have the same functionality and uniformity across all sports. There is zero need to make one sport different from the others for multi-sports events. It doesn't make sense. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:44, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Please, show me a functionality of the Commonwealth Games template that the judo template lacks. Even one. I'll be happy to further improve that template. CLalgo (talk) 11:39, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

If you are happy to improve a template, why not improve the Commonwealth Games template? It seems like you are less concerned with improving the article than you are making sure the horse you backed wins. GabberFlasted (talk) 14:50, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

• I am generally in agreement with Sportsfan 1234 and pretty firmly too. Being a series of events, with multiple nations competing, held every X years, the Commonwealth Games can pretty easily draw parallel to the Olympic Games, no? Each event uses the template of the games it is a part of, and this helps to lend consistency across all events. @CLalgo: your major point of contention seems to be that the judo event template carries more information/function than the Commonwealth Games Event template. I would offer that if this is true, would it not make sense to improve the Commonwealth Games template so as to include these extra functions? This is part of the appeal of using a consistent template; If the template is used for all events in the games, an improvement can be made to a single template, instead of each event template individually. GabberFlasted (talk) 14:38, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
  • Ideally, every specific multy-sport event template will implement special features for every sport. Hell, the true ideal will be a single template for all multy-sport event that implements all those features. The problem is the scope of code needed. Look at sport specific templates. They hold much more code than the simple event specific ones. No, add 40 of these codes into a single template and well, good luck with that project. The main reason to use event-specific template is it's linkage to "NOC in X games" page instead of to that NOC's country article. As this feature is and has been easily replicated in other sport-specific templates, why shouldn't they be used? CLalgo (talk) 20:45, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

    I don't believe that adding a feature to one template is any more difficult than adding it to another. Moreover I don't believe adding 10 features to one template is much more difficult than adding one feature to 10 events. But again, you say the feature is easily replicable, so why refuse its inclusion in the unified template? GabberFlasted (talk) 11:06, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

    I think I was misunderstood. The "easily replicable" feature is the one from the "games" template, linking to "NOC at YEAR of games" articles from the infobox instead of to that country article. The features of sport-specific templates are more complex, and more importantly – different from one to another. Including them all in a single template is probably possible, but difficult. It will take time and effort that no one has volunteered. Anyway, that is a Red herring. Our issue is given the available templates, why should Infobox Commonwealth Games event be used for judo articles when Infobox judo competition event exists? What is Infobox Commonwealth Games event's advantage? What added values does it bring the the other template doesn't? CLalgo (talk) 12:22, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

    As stated before, it has been standard practice to use the multi-sport event template (see Judo at the 2016 Summer Olympics), or at VERY least a sport-at-games template (see Basketball at the 2016 Summer Olympics). This is because unified templates help keep the appearance of these event pages similar. If an issue or improvement to be made is found, a single edit to a unified template will manifest in each usage of it. If each event used a different sport template, not only would they look more and more dissimilar, but it limits future options to make consistent template changes, or to connect the events back to the games they are a part of. This is not just a matter of current and immediate effects, but also future planning. GabberFlasted (talk) 15:14, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

    Well, {{Infobox basketball tournament at games}} used in Basketball at the 2016 Summer Olympics is a strong case why {{Infobox judo competition event}} may be used in our case. The template is as "games compatible" as the basketball one. CLalgo (talk) 21:18, 2 August 2022 (UTC)