Talk:Joseph Ballard Atherton

I contest the nomination for deletion. I came across this individual and researched him. I am not his relative of a person born 2 centuries ago in the US. I am British and this person who did a lot for Hawaii is not in my DNA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adin-Atherton (talk • contribs) 14:54, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page is not unambiguously promotional, because although it contains some little bits of fawning language, the bulk of it is merely factual information about a notable individual who died over a century ago. --Schazjmd (talk) 17:08, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Adin-Atherton, here are some examples of what I was referring to as "fawning language":

• "However within a few years he would soon be considered as one of the best informed men on the islands as to the resources of trade and the capacity of soil."
• "At this time he was one of the most successful sugar planters."
• "His judgement was instrumental to the success of the enterprises in which he took part."
• "Within a short period from his arrival in Honolulu, religious circles began to feel his active influence."

None of those are strictly factual statements. If they were the considered opinions of reliable sources, the readers can't know that because there are no inline citations to let them verify the information. "Considered one of the best informed..." by whom? "Most successful"...according to who? Who thought (and published) that "his judgement was instrumental"? Which religious circles credited (and published) that they were influenced by him?

Adding inline citations to the relevant sources may help with some of that, but statements that cannot be linked to a verifiable source should be removed. Schazjmd (talk) 18:06, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Deleted until I get more facts Adin-Atherton (talk) 18:28, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

Good job. If you like, I can help turn the references into inline citations later today. Schazjmd (talk) 18:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

I have inserted more references in an attempt to get this new article re-published

Any assistance with citations etc most appreciated Adin-Atherton (talk) 19:53, 19 January 2020 (UTC)

Plenty of new information to justify change of status from “draft”

Seeking input from others Adin-Atherton (talk) 14:39, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

@KAVEBEAR: I just ran across this while searching for sources on Atherton. I've never reviewed or passed a draft before, but you and I probably have enough knowledge and sourcing between the two of us that we can get this going. We could probably work on it more after we get it out of draft space. What do you think? — Maile (talk) 23:53, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

@Adin-Atherton: I’m not a big fan of backward researching other people’s work. It would help if User:Adin-Atherton can add ref notes to the end of each paragraphs to help understand which sources he got the information from. It can be bare URLs like this: <ref>Url</ref> KAVEBEAR (talk) 00:36, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

@KAVEBEAR: That would work also. I was already in the process of looking for sourcing on Atherton when I came across this Draft. So, maybe I can help where sourcing is lacking. And @Adin-Atherton: can place their sourcing next to the text where it applies. We can help them with formatting the sources. Adin-Atherton, I find RefToolbar/2.0 really helpful with its drop-down templates to format the citations. — Maile (talk) 01:36, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

• @Adin-Atherton:, I'm turning this back over to you with some suggestions. Because I made so many edits, I'm not the one who should review this to get it out of draft. But I think it stands a better chance now.

• "Sourcing (this group needs to be formatted and added inline where it applies)" IMO you could eliminate everything in this subsection now. The YMCA has now been covered and sourced. If you want to use "obituary of J B Atherton" and "Will filed and probate" then format them inline, and delete from this section.
• Hawaiian Mission Children's Society and Ann Rayson's Modern History of Hawaii don't have any inline sourcing. But if you used those in compiling this article, leave them. Even better if you can come up with page numbers for inline referencing.
• Ideally, you should have a minimum of one inline source per paragraph.
• Review what you wrote against the source, and be really careful that you varied the wording enough that it isn't a copyright violation.
• If you still need help, feel free to add Template:Help me to this talk page, and another editor will drop by to assist.

Good luck with this. If a reviewer passes it to move from draft space to main space, then that big tagging at the top of the page should be removed. — Maile (talk) 22:40, 23 January 2020 (UTC)