Talk:Jesu, meines Glaubens Zier

Regarding recordings

@Francis Schonken: Orchard Enterprises (these two are the same; the company's Facebook page (which is "The Orchard") notes "Confirmed Page Owner: ORCHARD ENTERPRISES, INC., THE") is something like a rights management agency if I understand correctly, it "purchases and licenses music recordings in digital format from record labels". So the music is on YT legally. Please stop removing it, unless you have a similar quality recording which you can put directly in the article. RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 15:19, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

References

If it's only YouTube claiming that Orchard Enterprises owns the copyright of this record, of which the copyright is obviously owned by Priory Records, then no, this Wikipedia article should not link to that YouTube video. It's not Wikipedia's task to sort out copyright issues at YouTube, and that website should not be believed on sight either if there is a clear discrepancy between the obvious owner of the copyright and who the, to all extents and purposes *anonymous*, uploader of the video claims to be the copyright holder. Again, see similar discussion at Talk:Christ lag in Todesbanden#Regarding external links and audio examples: by the time I had time to look into it (i.e. a similar claim that a YouTube video had its copyright sorted) the video had been deleted at YouTube. Precaution says not to link to this video. --Francis Schonken (talk) 15:52, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

@Francis Schonken: Per the article linked at that other page, which you seemingly have not taken time to read what appears to be around two weeks;

“As part of our deals with the music industry, we've licensed their other music that wasn't yet on YouTube or didn't have a music video,” the spokesperson said for Google. “When we did that, we created auto-generated videos for them to bring their music easily to YouTube viewers everywhere. That's what you're looking at with this link you sent.”

As I said very clearly, from the information I have, Orchard Enterprises is a rights management agency which has obviously signed a deal with Priory Records and is legally distributing their content. Since you can't read the youtube description, here it is:

"Norwich Cathedral Choir - Topic

Provided to YouTube by The Orchard Enterprises

It Is Finished · Norwich Cathedral Choir

Complete New English Hymnal Vol. 5

℗ 2000 Priory Records

Released on: 2001-06-30

Music Publisher: Copyright Control

Auto-generated by YouTube."

So, per the quote above, this is an auto-generated video created by Youtube based on a deal, i.e. a legal document, with the relevant rights holders from the music industry (the rights management agency, Orchard, on behalf of the label, Priory Records). If you object to the link because you think that somehow it's a bad version or something say so. For the record, there's also a German version by Ton Koopman et al. (also licensed to YT by Orchard). RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 16:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Regarding your first quote: yes, and then the video was deleted from YouTube. So all of these self-declarations have the same impact on me as an orange-coloured guinea pig claiming they are Donald Trump (as a manner of speech). --Francis Schonken (talk) 16:18, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

The other video is available in Canada (where I am). Have you tried using a proxy (some freely available web browser have that option) to verify if the video is available from a geographical location other than yours (Netherlands/Belgium/smwhr else in Europe)? RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 16:29, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Proxy? you seem to be missing the point on external links. An EL only makes sense if clicking it leads to content. References are different (but the Youtube video can not be used as reference): then it is not, as such, a problem that a linked reference doesn't show up for everyone. --Francis Schonken (talk) 16:36, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

You seem to be missing the point. As far as I see, the proxy refers to the other video, not this one. For the record, I have checked on my own and this one should be available from Europe (so is the Koopman I mentioned above). If you're not satisfied then I suggest either taking this up at WP:EL/N where the matter was previously discussed, or if you're so zealous about copyright you might try contacting the copyright holders via their website and ask - which will give you the same result (but at much more time wastage) than just being sensible and reading what I have written above instead of dismissing it with a casual reference to the orange baboon. RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 17:02, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, this one is, afaik, only about the copyright approach. But I'm not convinced. I read the notice. It seems dodgy. Who uploaded the video? – unclear; Did Priory Records really relinquish their copyright to The Orchard Enterprises? – unclear; is "The Orchard Enterprises" as mentioned on the YouTube page really identical to the "Orchard Enterprises Inc." about which Wikipedia has an article? – unclear; etc. There's no way to tell, really, whether any of this is authentic. So, principle of precaution seems to be the best route here. I've linked to YouTube videos from Wikipedia: only, however, if it's sufficiently clear, and anyone can easily check, who is who. --Francis Schonken (talk) 17:30, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

As far as I understand, Orchard is acting as a rights management agency on behalf and with authorization from Priory Records; as this is what both the description and the "- topic" indication imply. RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 20:56, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Re. "As far as I understand" – yes, that's what someone would like us to believe... but is it really so? It's not straightforward enough to my taste. --Francis Schonken (talk) 04:24, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

Navbox

@Francis Schonken: The English language text is not Lutheran; the only hymnals it appears in are Anglican and it might even be described as Anglo-Catholic, see the statements from Adey, 2011, p. 177-178 (they are paraphrased in the article):

Both the aristocratic connections of Gabriel Gillett, as alumnus of Westminster School and Keble College, Oxford and former chaplain to the Anglo-Catholic Viscont Halifax, and the purport of his Passion hymn "It is finished! Christ hath known" typify the conservative tradition. [p. 177] As in the slaying of Christ "on the altar of creation," his theology and poetic tone are medieval. [p. 178]

As such, I have removed the template. RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 04:11, 16 May 2020 (UTC)