Talk:Jesse Itzler

Untitled

As the author of the article, I am willing to let this one be removed from Wikipedia, due to my lack of knowledge of the subject. My original intent was to provide a point of reference for several of the songs from the album - in particular Shake it like a White Girl and College Girls. I seem to be ineffectie at writing Wikimarkup, and couldn't figure out how to do reference effectively. But regardless, I am unsure of the importance of the sources.

If anyone can find a good reason to keep this article on Wikipedia, I would like to invite them to improve it.

I am, as I mentioned, prepared to let this point of reference be removed, and would like to apologize if I have taken up the editors' time. Thank you all.

Jlennon314 20:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

• It was not quite apparent from the article, but the artist is in fact notable, there are a number of sources in newspapers. I have therefore changed the album article into an article about the artist-entrepreneur. --B. Wolterding 13:11, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

College Girls

The material I removed here is obviously inappropriate for Wikipedia. Google search results do not pass the reliable sources criteria. Other sections were entirely unsourced or original research, which is a no-go, especially in a biography of a living person. Other sources given do not contain the information attributed to them, and some don't even mention Itzler at all, which is original research. As this is a BLP it is necessary that the article be free of that kind of thing.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:51, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

A large chunk of this article was removed. the information was referenced. the part that did not include information about the artist its self was referencing a part of the article which was about why mp3's would be mislabeled, the reference was a nationally publicized magazine discussing the fact that older songs which were ripped in the early days of p2p file sharing were often mislabeled.

the usage of referencing Google was specifically done to cite sources on the sentence the section "college girls" which was about search engine results returning a large number of results which wrongly accredit the lyrics, authorship, and music to other artists, and those artists which are frequently found to be accredited wrongly as the authors when a typical person may try to find this information using a search engine.

an important and non trivial note about this song is that it is frequently mislabeled, this means that viewers curious about the true authorship of this song may wind up on this Wikipedia page and it would be helpful and relevant for them to know which artists this song is often wrongly accredited to.

if there is no further discussion the material will be added back to the page soon. measures will be made to more succinctly portray the information and the references. Nophonenophone (talk) 16:14, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

The material I removed was all either unsourced or poorly sourced. On Google, Google search results are never reliable sources, regardless of what they're for. If you want to include that material, it must be attributed to a reliable, published source or it can't be used. You say it's an "important and non trivial note about this song" that it is often mislabelled; if this is the case surely there is an actual source out there saying that. And no, don't add the controverted material back into the article. If you continue edit warring you are very likely to be blocked from editing.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:38, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

To clarify a bit, some of the sources do say that MP3s were mislabeled in file sharing. However, none of them say that this song specifically was mislabeled. As such it is effectively synthesis of published material, as it uses sources to advance a position not directly stated in those sources.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:42, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

how do I have to change it to make it a valid statement? I changed it to say "it is likely that" is it enough to change it to say " it is likely that..... like many other mp3's were" (site source). I simply want to reference that many songs at this time were mislabeled when they were traded on p2p networks because of pirating. "many songs were mislabeled in the early days of p2p because of pirating, which may explain why this song is mislabeled"

Frankly, since I started working on this article, the search results have improved which is impressive to me. All results used to point to easy-e or beastie boys, now hits come up for Jesse specifically. I think the information is valid for anybody trying to verify the validity of the authorship of this song. Nophonenophone (talk) 16:58, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Again, you'd need to find a source that specifically says that "College Girls" was frequently mislabeled, or else it's still original research. If you can't find such a source, we can't include the information.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:17, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

I think what Nophone is getting at is the fact that it is the search results themselves which often return the mis-labeling. This isn't exactly something that can be "cited" as much as it can be witnessed by simply doing a search on one's own via google/et al, newsgroups and download sites. The only thing that is "citable" per say is the factual information of the artist and the song - but that does nothing to clarify that the numerous mis-applications of information are out there. There really does have to be a way to state this, without it necessitating a strict citation. Srobak (talk) 23:49, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

There's really not. All challenged material needs to be attributed to a reliable, published source. If the fact that this song was frequently mis-attributed is really notable, some reliable source would have mentioned it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Srobak has it right. I believe that many people interested in the true authorship in this song would benefit from being able to reference the wiki page, and that when they get here, it would be relevant for them to know that they found the correct author and that the other likely candidates they discovered were wrong. if you look through the search results on Google some people have inquired directly about the song very recently and some had inquired years ago, while mislabeled YouTube videos and other incarnations are also scattered throughout the years. because of the songs apparent perpetuation through pop culture I would suggest that the song and it's mislabeledness are hardly different in their notability than many internet memes that have their own Wikipedia pages.

secondly there is an expressed difference in Wikipedia’s letter of the law and intention of the law, where as the musical career and thus albums fall under Jesse’s bio page, the information being presented is not biographical, or libelous, which is what the wikilaw regarding references and deletion of material are meant to protect against. I think that is stands to reason that factual information that there is evidence people are interested in and is clearly non libelous has a place on the page even if it is accompanied by a "citation needed" tag in the event that future wiki editors happen to find one. I agree that there must be some way to include this information.Nophonenophone (talk) 03:50, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I don't know how else to say it. The verifiability policy is quite clear: if there's not a reliable, published source stating this piece of information directly, it does not belong in Wikipedia. That is both the letter and the spirit of the policy.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:18, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

so what then? can we make a stub specifically for his musical career? because his musical careers wiki page was removed and combined with this one, but the info about his musical career (songs, albumbs, and reception) need not be subjected the same scrutiny as the biographical information.  ::Nophone::: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.203.93.90 (talk) 03:21, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

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