Talk:James (given name)

Kazakh versions

There is also Kazakh name Жақып which is derived from the same roots. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.165.213.18 (talk) 15:18, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Importance

top importance predicated on the status in the United States 1990 census as most popular given name. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:53, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Cognates

Can we be absolutely sure that the French Gemmes came from Jacob? They sound very different, and I am a little suspicious of "cognate names". I know when translating names from Scottish Gaelic to English, often they just used an English version that sounded similar, or even just had the same first letter, but which had no relation in meaning. Or for example I had a Korean colleague called Sung-Hee, and her host family just decided to give her the English name Stacey, because it is a girls name starting with "S" and was easier for them to say. If she became famous, in a hundred years time we might see in English-Korean translation guides that Sung-Hee is Stacey in English. Over time what was once expedient can become official. (58.164.29.160 21:57, 27 June 2007 (UTC))

There is no real Chinese cognate to "James". The Chinese "name" mentioned here is a transcription of the English name. For that matter most English/western names have no cognates in east Asian languages. tess (talk) 20:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

(True, and the pinyin should be zhān mǔ sī, which makes it obvious. I note that the pages vowels are wrong in this line: The 3 chars are 0084, 0096 and 008B, which aren't valid UTF-8 encodings, nor UTF-16 nor any other obvious encodings. They show as boxed-hex glyphs on my screen. I tried to correct the line, but couldn't find a way to edit that section. There's no "[Edit]" thingie on the right, and poking around at the history didn't tell me anything. Is there a way to fix these three incorrect chars? Some of us like to be pedantic about getting the tones right in tone languages.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jc42 (talk • contribs) 15:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Diminutive

Does the creator of this page know the meaning of diminutive? As far as I know , a diminutive is not just any shorter form of a name but a form of a name that is specifically used to denote smallness in its broadest sense (for example a diminutive might be used to convey intimacy). Some names may have started as a diminutive and may have become just another (informal) variant of the name. I wouldnt mind if those names were called diminutives (such as Jamie). But has Jake ever been used as a diminutive? merijn

Would you prefer the term "hypocorism"? 98.251.225.38 (talk) 22:00, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Supplanter

I note that many "baby names" sites give "supplanter" as the meaning of the name. That's probably out of embarassment, since "he grabs the heel" doesn't sound like a very cool or auspicious name to give your baby son. However, the literal meaning of the name is really "he heeled" or similar. It is true that Jacob was a "supplanter" of his older brother, but that's in the Genesis narrative, not in the name. dab (𒁳) 15:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Two different times of prevalent use

My understanding is that the name "James" was derived from "Jacob." I do not believe the two entries should be merged because to the best of my knowledge (which is not absolute), there is no reference to anyone named James in the Old Testament. However, James is already a common name amongst the Hebrews during the time period of the New Testament. Now, without doing any extensive research, I understand that it is clearly used at that time completely separate from the name Jacob. I take this as a strong indication that the language and culture that originated these names had already made a complete distinction between the two names, and their subsquent, but separate histories grew onward from this. An example would be the use of "Joshua" or "Yeshua" and the name "Jesus." I would merge those two entries because the name Jesus did not even exist then. The person we call Christ's name was in fact Yeshua, or Joshua. This is not the same of James and Jacob because I have never understood the use of the name James in New Testament times to be synonymous with Jacob. Even the Hebrews of the period knew it as a derivation, not the same name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ProperGood (talk • contribs) 21:26, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, you're pretty much completely wrong there. The New Testament says "Iakob" in Greek, which is exactly the same word the Old Testament uses in Hebrew. It's merely a traditional convention among English translators to say "James" when translating from Greek and "Jacob" when translating from Hebrew. In New Testament times there was no distinction at all. --194.98.58.121 (talk) 12:17, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

James isn't Jacob even though it is dervied from it

James shouldn't be joined to the page for Jacob. As the article states, this is a common US name as well as English... The name Tanya itself means 'Fairy Queen' should that be associated with an aramaic/slavic/latin fairy queen page? Other names and words have common derivatives but aren't joined together so in my view neither should James. James derives from Jacob, Yacob>>>IAKOBUS(Greek)>>>>>GEMMES(FRENCH)>>>>James(ENGLISH).--86.153.91.60 (talk) 04:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

To combine James with Jacob is like proposing to combine the United States with England. Yes the US and some of its customs (such as Common Law) are derived from England but the US is a totally different entity. Sallicio (talk) 02:59, 1 February 2008 (UTC)Sallicio

• Oppose: the two names are related but by no means closely enough to be considered together. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 01:45, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose the names are related but distinct, like a multitude of other names that have their own article. Discussion is also at at Talk:Jacob (name), which has 1 Oppose, 2 Supports at the time of my writing. - Draeco (talk) 05:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

• OPPOSE First of all, James is the most popular name in America and one of the top in other countries. Therefore, the most popular and relevant, and thus most important, name should have its own page if other names have theirs. Also, just because a name is DERIVED from another name, it is not the same name. James != Jacob If you had a friend named James, would you call him Jacob? Cubie Newbie (talk) 23:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose the names are distinct, even if their roots are in common. --Jmbranum (talk) 05:57, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose see my reasons on the Jacob page. --NSH001 (talk) 10:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. They are etymologically the same name but for every day puposes they are different names (if that makes sense!).However, there needs to be a good explanation of the links between the names.--Trounce (talk) 11:16, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

The link between Jacob and James needs to be expanded

As I understand it Jacob and James are the same name (etymologically speaking). Just as Yeshua and Jesus are the same name.Jacob became transliterated and latinized as Iacomus (Jacomus) just as Jesus is the transliteration/latinization of Yeshua. Somehow Jacomus became anglicized to James. It would be great if someone could fill in the reasons why that happened.

I could be wrong on this but, that would mean that St. James of the New Testament could correctly be called Jacob. Could the source of the split in the names originate in the translating of the New Testament???

It is interesting to note that the "adjective" (not sure if that's the correct term) for James is Jacobean. For example the reign of King James is known as the Jacobean era. This shows the etymological link--Trounce (talk) 11:16, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

After looking at a polyglot bible website, it seems the Latin Vulgate translates James as Jacobus in the New testament. However, Jacob in the the Old Testament is translated as simply Jacob :

• James as Jacobus in Latin new Testament here, Mathew 10:2 and also here, James 1:1

• Jacob as Jacob in Latin Old Testament here, Genisis 28:1,6 and 7

I wonder why Jacob was used in the Old Testament and Jacobus in the New?--Trounce (talk) 13:00, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

I suspect it’s because Jacob is transliterated into Roman characters directly from the Hebrew Yaakov. The Christian Bible was written in Greek, so Jacobus probably comes from whatever the Greek version was. -DrGaellon (talk | contribs) 10:35, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Name (Catalan)

I'm a catalan speaker and I've never seen this names: Jaim, Xaume. The others yes: Jaume, Jacob (this is not usual). And I too speak Spanish, and all are wellknonw, but Iago, I've only seen it with a Y (Yago). But this one I can't say it sure, because there are lot's of languages that speak Spanish.--RobCatalà (talk) 16:05, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

American Presidents

More Presidents of the USA have been named James than any other single first name. There are 6 of them to be exact. To prove this, I took the liberty of listing the Presidents in a numeral scheme even though it is not conventional.

Madison would be James I. Monroe would be James II. Polk would be James III. Buchanan would be James IV. Garfield would be James V. Carter would be James VI.

All other names do have fewer than 6 Presidents, so let us mention it under Usage. The sentence in the Article (as opposed to here) could be as simple as "More Presidents of the USA have had this name than any other single first name." The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 02:39, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Sainte Gemme

Sainte Gemme is a female saint, that is called in Latin Gemma and Sainte Gemmes is a misspelling of her. No connection with James. I took out the source, it is a mistake. Nortmannus (talk) 18:09, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

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An entirely different account

Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic etc. are all different dialects of some older Semitic language. A lot of similarity follows. The meanings of a lot of common names are simple concepts. Like "the one who came behind", the second of twins, your Jacob. Now "Khamis or Khames" are common names for a fifth son. As someone else previously mentioned, the notion of Jacob = James is quite unsatisfactory.SBader (talk) 16:45, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Yom

The given etymology needs to be attested as a claim. As I understand it, James derives from Jam'/Yom by way of an old English spelling convention adding the "es" leftover from the Roman convention adding "us", and the original name is simply Jam'/Yom, which connects genealogically to Jonas (note Roman ending), or Yun' not so much Yakob. The idea of Chinese genealogy isn't difficult either, as Jacob as chieftain knew well even in his day that Easterners arrived at his land by way of the Gulf of Sinai, Westerners by way of the Mediterranean. Yom is a different name from Yakob though with a different meaning, meaning "like the day" or "bright." -2600:1:9A1D:22D0:CE33:195A:9489:8159 (talk) 02:12, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

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How to globalize

I'm puzzled as to how this article could/should be globalized. Granted, it is written in English, and the authors discuss cognates and nicknames. It seems impractical (as well as a waste of space) to do the same for every language listed, and it's not clear to me that some of this material is appropriate, given the debate about the "origin" of the name (if there is such a thing). Are there guidelines that might apply more specifically to names, of people and similar objects? -- Jimmy Hers (talk) 00:05, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

The Ancient Hebrew and Arabic translations of the name James

Moved from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anthroponymy#The Ancient Hebrew and Arabic translations of the name James Lembit Staan (talk) 18:41, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

James is an English male name that has its root in Ancient Hebrew and Greek. James in Hebrew is written as: ג'יימס. In Ancient Greek, it is: Ἰάκωβος that is pronounced as : "Iakoubos which is translated as Jakob that is of Nordic European root and by today's standards, it is German, Dutch, and Danish.

"Jakob" in Ancient Hebrew is: "Ya'aqob", or "Ya'agob", or "Ya'aghob".

Different ancient Jewish tribes had pronounced "Jakob" with slightly different accent therefore it was written based on however way it was pronounced as: "Ya'aqob", or "Ya'agob", or "Ya'aghob".

It is pertinent to understand that Ancient Hebrew and Arabic have the same origin. By simply looking at the structure of the names: "Ya'aqob", or "Ya'agob", or "Ya'aghob" one can effortlessly notice the similarities of these three versions.

In Arabic, the exact writing of Jakob is: Ya'aghoob that means: " Your highness (Prophet, or chosen)", or "The Protected". "Ya'a" in Arabic is equivalent of "Ha" in Hebrew that means "the" and it is also used to "respectfully" refer to someone or something of high status or with high regards, or to distinguish and honour them. Thus, Ya'aghoob is consisted of two parts: "Ya'a" (يَاء)  means: "Your highness", or "The", and "ghoob" (غوب) that means: "cover, protected, invisible, secret".

James, on the other hand, is written in Ancient Greek as: Ἰάκωμος that is pronounced as: "Iakomos" which was translated as Jakum.

Jakum in Ancient Hebrew is: "Ya'aqum", "Ya'qom", "Ya'aghom". In Arabic is : "Ya'aghoom". Ghom in Arabic is : "قوم" that literally means: "nation, tribe, descendants", and metaphorically means: "strength or power". Thus, Ya'aqom or Ya'aghom means: "The (or: most distinguished) Nation" and metaphorically, in this case as the name of an individual, it means: "The Power or strength".

James various derivative meanings are: Strong, Bold, Assertive, Law obeying, Destined, Kosher in Ancient Hebrew and Arabic.

Both  Arabic and Ancient Hebrew are extremely "precise" languages. These two ancient languages have a "distinguished" meaning and mathematically a "specific" method/style of evaluation of each alphabetic letter to every word.

Thus, James is not Jacob!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kislev-Sheni (talk • contribs) 12:26, 30 November 2020 (UTC) 

Do you have references that support you statements? In wikipedia we can add information to articles onlt base of references to reliable sources.Lembit Staan (talk) 18:44, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

'ya' is the definite article in Swahili, not Arabic; the Arabic is 'al-' --attached to the noun with the lam assimilated to initial dentals. Nothing this guy says is reliable, and we sense a dearth of philological competence in most of the comments here.

What we need more than a list of 'James' conversions to modern languages is more data on forms of the name in the Christian languages in which it evolved. In the Anglo-Saxon Bible the Latin form is retained while Wycliffe has the modern form James. The one form is Old English, the other Middle English, which as we see here not only combines French and Germanic vocabulary but adopts French forms of names as well.

We gather from the similarity of the French and Spanish (James and Jaime) as opposed to Italian (Giacomo) an east/west divergence in the Romance languages; the Hebrew phonemes must be considered one at a time: yod, 'ayin, qof, beth. To the Hebrew consonants we have to add the Latin 's' (nearly all Latin masculine names end with -us). And since only speakers of Semitic languages could pronounce the 'ayin, it did not survive transliteration into Latin: Jerome gives us Jacobus, where the 'J' equals 'Y'.

With the Roman adoption of the Bible and the priestly practice of bestowing Christian names, two things happened: names departed from the academic world of transliteration or translation, to the realm of living words that would evolved along with the rest of the language. (But at the same time a new kind of name appeared: a name with no meaning.) So the Latin 'Y' became the Vulgar Latin 'J' throughout Europe, and the 'B' changed to 'M'. In western Europe the Q/K was dropped. In Iberia the 'S' disappeared and in Castille the J became a 'sh' sound and then an 'h' sound, while French retained the Old Latin 'S' and the j sound of Vulgar Latin.

Accordingly we have the continuous evolution of a single name, and any attempts to split its discussion into its more or less conservative offspring would entail considerable redundancy. It's quite different from the case of 'Simon', where we have a genuine Greek name that among Greek speaking Jews replaced the Hebrew name Shim'eon (so the Apocrypha of the Septuagint). --AGF 136.38.90.19 (talk) 15:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Spanish Tiago

"Spanish Tiago"

There appears to be some confusion. Although not found often today, the Spanish version alluded to here would be Iago (derived from Latin "Iacobus"/Jacobus) It is encountered more frequently today in the form Santiago (Saint James) the national saint of Spain, whence I presume the confusion.

Wikipedia tells me that Thiago or Tiago is a Portuguese form.

JF42 (talk) 04:14, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

'Iago' seems to have persisted within or between Iberian dialects/languages along side 'Jaime', particularly in combination with 'Santo', as in Santiago. Evidently in Portuguese and Spanish the 't' was sometime deleted or displaced, yielding the shortened form 'San' for 'santos' as in San Francisco, and San Tiago for Santiago, whence the name 'Tiago'. --AGF 136.38.90.19 (talk) 17:54, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Jack

Historically 'Jack' is a version of John, althought there seems to be widespread ignorance of this fact. Association with James appears to be a modern confusion although most people naming their child Jack today seem to assume that it is a name in its own right, beloved of Hollywood.

JF42 (talk) 04:20, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Link to disambiguated Jim is correct and deliberate

Just saying. פשוט pashute ♫ (talk) 16:33, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

"many Jews used this name for representing the Hebrew name of Haim"

In what places? During what periods? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.111.216 (talk) 18:27, 21 June 2022 (UTC)