Talk:Honorary citizen of the United States

Jun Fujita

I was brought to the Honorary Citizenship article via link from the article on Japanese-American Jun Fujita, which said that he received an Honorary Citizenship by an act of Congress, but his name is not included on the list in the Honorary Citizenship Article. Rgleon9986 (talk) 04:03, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Old comments

Its Seven people and not six,Lata Mangeshkar singer from indiaa has also been given the Honorary Citizen of the United States.

REF:1987-Honorary Citizenship of USA in Houston, Texas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.164.92.2 (talk) 18:53, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Six people, yes, not five. Thanks. :-) Chris Roy 22:32, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)

---

Is the immigration category appropriate? Only two of these people lived in the States. Pcb21| Pete 09:15, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Since citizenship is gained through a naturalization process, which is under immigration, this article fits into the cateogry. I suppose that an "honors" category might be a closer fit. BTW, the article should make some distinction between these rare honorary citizenship, and the common "private bills" granting citizenship to individuals, which are also acts of congress. Willmcw 09:56, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Sakharov

I came here from http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Andrei_Sakharov where is mentioned that he got this degree, but he isn't mentioned here Tbc2 04:20, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. As far as I can tell, a bill to make Sakharov an honorary citizn was introduced with a measly 8 co-sponsors in 2002 and died in committee. [1] I can't find any evidence that the bill was ever voted on in the House, much less the Senate, much less signed by the president. [Winnie and Nelson Mandela didn't make it either]. I've commented-out the item in the Sakhoarov article, pending a reference. Cheers, -Willmcw 05:31, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Is it a "Real" Citizenship?

Is honorary U.S. citizenship a "real" U.S. citizenship - does it carry the right to a U.S. passport or a right of abode in the United States? JAJ 01:17, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, so far as I can tell. However since it has only been awarded to living people twice, and neither recipient was likely to change nationality, it hasn't come up, I'm sure. -Will Beback 02:15, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Our article doesn't make this clear. There must be somewhere to find info on the question. --Hyphen5 16:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[2] This file contains the original resolution, which says that it posthumously grants "full rights of citizenship" in the case of the Penns. I'm not sure what those rights would be posthumously.-Will Beback 21:31, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

This link from the State Dept says there's no eligibility for a U.S. passport. So the strong evidence is that "honorary" U.S. citizenship is not a form of United States nationality Details (pdf) JAJ 00:59, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

It would make sense that this is an honorarium, not an immigration status change. Of course there could be an interesting case on this if it every came to litigation.Mneumisi 17:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The thing is, if it is indeed an actual form of citizenship, the whole dual-citizenship issue arises where the honour may ultimately have to be refused if the honoree's country of citizenship does not allow dual citizenship. 118.90.61.181 (talk) 09:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Speaking as a lawyer, the answer is clearly no. There is no legal status or rights attached to the title. Curiously Lafayette was declared an honorary citizen though he was already a US citizen!119.224.91.84 (talk) 22:50, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

2002?

This article says that the Marquis de la Fayette was given honorary citizenship in 2002. Yet Jules Verne's novel From Earth to the Moon mentions la Fayette receiving citizenship, and that book was published in like 1870. Someone should verify that fact.

Verne's novel is obviously a piece of fiction. [3] is clear evidence of the actual date of the honor. However it's possible that some early president made an unofficial statement, before that law was passed, calling LaFayette a "citizen". -Will Beback · † · 23:28, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

He was made an honorary citizen when he visited the U.S. in 1824 by a proclamation of Congress, here http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0104/lafayette_legacy.html confirmed on the Library of Congress website. It was again bestowed on him in 2002. It's really symbolic in both cases. Lafayette was entitled to full U.S. citizenship because of his military service, just as it was granted to Tadeusz Kościuszko and Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben shortly after the war. Jsc1973 (talk) 06:23, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I suppose this would be the opposite of being only a us national and not a us citizen, being a citizen and not a national67.84.178.0 (talk) 04:07, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm wondering why he was given the honor twice. Did the 1824 award cease to be valid at some stage? The later one would seem to be irrelevant, since he already was an honorary citizen. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:19, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

he was honored so many times because of the considerable acclaim and esteem, every time he traveled after the revolution he was mobbed, and showered with honors (the fact he was already an honorary citizen wouldn't have stopped them doing it again). Pohick2 (talk) 00:53, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

The 2002 proclamation says:

• Whereas the Marquis de Lafayette was conferred the honor of honorary citizenship by the Commonwealth of Virginia and the State of Maryland;
• Whereas the Marquis de Lafayette was the first foreign dignitary to address Congress, an honor which was accorded to him upon his return to the United States in 1824;

I'm wondering if the author of "Lafayette's Travels in America Documented" on the LOC website might be wrong. Perhaps she is conflating the state citizenships and the address to US Congress. Since the article is signed, I'll try to contact her and see if she has any more information.   Will Beback  talk  03:48, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I've sent a letter to the library asking them for more info. Also, I looked at this book, [4] which discusses LaFayette's 1824 visit on pages 199-202. It mentions the honorary state citizenships and the address to Congress, but no honorary U.S. citizenship. I think the LOC article may be in error.   Will Beback  talk  04:18, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Good move. Until yesterday, Winston Churchill's article said he was he first honorary US citizen. I've changed it to second, to be consistent with this article. But maybe he really was the first after all. -- JackofOz (talk) 05:52, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I've received a reply from the researcher at the Library of Congress who wrote the article. It's complicated, as she says. Since the material is not personal, I'll quote the main part of the response:

In response to your recent inquiry citing the article by Patricia Molen van Ee, Specialist in Cartographic History, Geography and Map Division, published in the Library of Congress Information Bulletin, Vol. 60, No. 4, we have determined that the source and timing of Lafayette's becoming an honorary citizen of the United States is incorrect. The one piece of information that we know for certain is that Congress did not proclaim Lafayette an honorary citizen in 1824. We regret this mistake.

The matter is complicated beyond this point. Contemporary sources call into question the accuracy of the Joint Resolution (PL-107-209) and the House Report (107-595) supporting the Joint Resolution dated August 6, 2002, which supposedly made Lafayette an honorary U.S. citizen.

What can be stated clearly is that Lafayette became an honorary citizen of the state of Maryland on December 23, 1784. This made him an American citizen under the Articles of Confederation. Citizenship was not nationalized until passage of Fourteenth Amendment after the Civil War. See Stanley Izerda, Lafayette in the Age of the American Revolution: Selected Letters and Papers. Vol. 5, pp 289-290. Izerda, p. 269, n. 1, also states that Connecticut had made him a citizen of that state in October 1784.

There is additional evidence indicating that Lafayette was the first person receiving an honorary citizenship in the United States, and that it was conferred before 2002 .The Library of Congress Exhibition Website for "Churchill and the Great Republic" directly mentions Lafayette's honorary status as a citizen of the United States.

President Kennedy alluded to the Lafayette citizenship in his speech dated April 1963, in announcing the Congressional resolution instructing the President to make Winston Churchill an honorary US citizen; see Public Papers of the Presidents of the United States: John F. Kennedy, 1963, (Washington DC, 1964), item 126, p. 315.

See also The Library of Congress's Interactive Winston Churchill exhibit" <http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/churchill/interactive/index.html > which has a portion of the film clip in which Kennedy refers to this issue. After launching the exhibit, click on "Objects" and then "Moving Images." It's the last of three. There President Kennedy specifically states that Churchill is only the second person to receive this honor and that Lafayette was the first.

I cannot explain why the Congressional Report of 2002 states that the matter of honorary citizenship had been explored in 1935, and it was determined by the Department of State that U.S. honorary citizenship could not be conferred through the individual states. See House Report, 107th Congress, second session, to accompany S.J. Res. 13, dated 2002. There is also a reference to honorary citizenship being granted on four prior occasions.

I have noted a number of dates when Lafayette was purported to have become an honorary citizen. Some of the information appears on sites of reputable organizations including universities. By going to the primary sources, we can conclude what was done, but not why.

I'm still pondering about how to untangle this in our article.   Will Beback  talk  23:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I would create a section just for this and replace the dates at the top with some sort of blurb referring the reader to it. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

That may be necessary, but it would be better to fix what we have too. The Kennedy speech seems to thread the issue precisely: LaFayette was the first honorary citizen, and Churchill was the first honorary citizen proclaimed by Congress. The currect text is:

• General Lafayette, a Frenchman who was an officer in the American Revolution (1824; and again in 2002, posthumously)[1]

Maybe something more like this:

• General Lafayette, a Frenchman who was an officer in the American Revolution, is recognized as being the first honorary citizen of the U.S. He first received it from Maryland in 1783, which made him a national citizen under the Articles of Confederacy. He was made an honorary citizen of Maryland again in 1823, as well as of Connecticut the same year. He was also recognized as an honorary citizen in a 2002 joint congressional resolution.

How does it that seem? I can get the Idzerda book from a local libary to confirm the date.   Will Beback  talk  08:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd change "He first received it from Maryland in 1783" to "He was made an honorary citizen of the state of Maryland in 1783". Clarityfiend (talk) 01:50, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Good idea. I'll go ahead and add it to the article.   Will Beback  talk  19:58, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Yet more on Lafayette

After having the text of the 1784 Maryland statute pointed out to me, here are my conclusions, which I've incorporated into this article and the one on the Marquis de Lafayette himself:

• Maryland made Lafayette (And his male heirs until the end of time!) "natural born Citizens." I don't know what Connecticut and other states did, but the language in the Maryland resolution is clear.
• This made Lafayette a natural born citizen of the United States once the Constitution was ratified. Yes, this means that Lafayette would have been eligible for the Presidency. (And yes, before you ask, Alexander Hamilton was eligible too.)
• Thus, while we can call Lafayette an honorary citizen of the United States from 1784 on (since the granting was an honor), his is the one case in which an honorary citizenship unambiguously granted all legal rights and privileges of a non-honorary citizenship. Since the ratification of the Constitution and consequent grandfathering of all (non-symbolic) state citizenships into "natural born citizen"ship was a one-time thing, other honorary citizens a) are ineligible for the Presidency and b) may or may not have other rights of citizenship such as voting. As the article notes, they can't carry US passports. YLee (talk) 08:49, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

in addition, in 1784, Lafayette and his family were made honorary citizens of Connecticut (Clary, Adopted Son p. 369); note that later in 1795 Adrienne de Lafayette and the children were issued American passports. Pohick2 (talk) 22:43, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

An interesting point, in the same vein, is that he was also offered the governorship of Lousisiana (I *think*) at some point. If memory serves, then-President Jefferson made the offer (I believe by appointment, at the time, as this was a territory). Lafayette turned it down in order to tend to simmering French affairs. Lazulilasher (talk) 00:53, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

([5] well he was fomenting a little dissent to Charles X of France), i wish you all wouldn't say six people, since you would have to add Adrienne de Lafayette, Georges Washington La Fayette, Anastasie, and Virginie. Pohick2 (talk) 01:58, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have the legal citation of the Connecticut conferral of citizenship? I've been trying to pull it off of Westlaw with no luck. Pohick, do you still have the Clary book - Clary might provide a primary source citation? I returned it to the library over a year ago, and now want to find the text of the CT act. Thanks, Lazulilasher (talk) 01:03, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

no footnote, on the sentence at Connecticut, but in the passage he's citing from Lafayette's letters: Laf to GW Oct 8, 1784 Idzerda, Lafayette in the Age of Revolution: Selected Letters and Papers, 5:266-267, 276-277 it would be in Washington letters also. hmm, letters are not quite good enough, wonder if the state archives would have the law? [6] "Microfilm: 1776-1839 microfilmed as part of Records of the States of the United States. See #8 of Bibliography. - On the Web: Not yet." - microfilm might be at LOC, might check next time i swing by. Pohick2 (talk) 00:41, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Upon further review, I think we might have to remove Lafayette from this article completely. (Or, at least, move him down the list.) I recently found two newspaper articles, from 1963 and 1973. They both point out that Churchill, not Lafayette, was the first honorary citizen of the United States since a) it was the individual states, not Congress, that made Lafayette an honorary citizen, and b) since Lafayette's citizenship of the United States is covered under Article Two (as I mention above) and is thus "real", it really shouldn't at all be called "honorary" with the "not real" implication that adjective carries. (If anything the Maryland resolution ought to be seen as a private bill to give him citizenship, and as the article already points out private bills shouldn't be seen as honorary.) Of course, since the newspaper articles were written Congress has indeed said that Lafayette is an honorary citizen of the United States, but not until the 2002 resolution.

So, I propose to do the following:

• Put Churchill first in the list of honorary citizens
• Decide whether a regular citizen of the United States can be also an "honorary citizen." Either delete Lafayette completely if the answer is "no," or move him to just ahead of Pulaskin in the list if the answer is "yes." I will withhold my answer for the time being and see what the consensus is. In the meanwhile, I am going to add a curious postscript, not directly related to the subject, to the article. YLee (talk) 03:20, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

You can't delete him. Congress and the State Department both say he's an honorary citizen. I'd put him before Pulaski with an explanation of the complications and contradictory sources. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I rewrote the article to correct for Lafayette, and updated the Gilbert du Motier, marquis de Lafayette, Winston Churchill, and Honours of Winston Churchill articles accordingly. Other honorary citizens' articles may also need adjusting if they say something like "third to receive the honor." YLee (talk) 11:44, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Wasn't Churchill an American Citizen By Birth?

His mother was American, so unless she waived her American citizenship before his birth, he should be an American citizen. (24.62.126.170 (talk) 20:45, 18 April 2010 (UTC))

We can't assume that citizenship laws, especially those concerning dual citizenship, are the same today as they were over a hundred years ago.   Will Beback  talk  21:45, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

They were different. He could have claimed U.S. citizenship, but would have to renounce being a British subject. Now he would have dual citizenship at birth. I just found this out. (24.62.126.170 (talk) 04:50, 20 April 2010 (UTC))

Ferguson

I've removed the section on Ferguson. That section was nothing more than trivia in disguise. I'm posting this here since it seems that section has been tolerated for 2 years or so. My reasons were in the edit summary. --64.85.216.176 (talk) 12:24, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Link doesn't work

The link to the Public Laws about US Honorary Citizenship DOES NOT WORK. Please update it. Thank you.

Eugen Craciun aka Rudolph Aspirant aka roamsk

¿What About Gerald BULL?

¿What About Gerald BULL? Yes, he later had problems, but he did receive such citizenship.174.25.142.178 (talk) 21:45, 25 June 2011 (UTC) A REDDSON

He became an American citizen the normal everyday way, certainly not by act of Congress. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:57, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Clarityfiend, your statement is incorrect. Gerald Bull indeed did become an American citizen by an Act of Congress.TL36 (talk) 09:23, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Penn and wife honorary citizens? Why?

Interesting article, with valiant (and successful) battle to describe Lafayette's timing accurately! Well done. But why was William Penn (who d. 1718) made an honorary citizen of the USA? He died 58 years before the "United States" came into existence. How can one be an honorary citizen of a country one never knew? It's akin to making Neil Armstrong an honorary citizen of the Republic of the Moon in the year 2969. What was Congress's rationale for so honouring Penn? And second wife too? According to Penn's Wiki-biog she only visited America for 2 years and preferred England! Penn himself was only on American soil for about 4 years (1681-1684 and Dec 1699-1701). I'm not questioning his right to honours - as a mass landowner, he was a benevolent dictator, and a good Quaker who deserved greater reward in later life. But what was the rationale for making him an honorary citizen of a country that (for him) never existed... exactly how was it justified? in 1984? Under Reagan? Without some explanation, there's a danger it can make 'honorary citizenship' seem bizarre, and attract derision. Perhaps a quote from the award citation (I assume there was one) should be included to throw some light. Pete Hobbs (talk) 21:59, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

What's the point of posthumous citizenship anyway? You're right that some explanation would help. The bill that authorized it has a bunch of 'whereas' statements, but none of them really explain why the matter was taken up. I found a short New York Times about it, which includes this text:

• The matter had been considered but never acted upon by previous sessions of Congress, which rarely approves posthumous citizenships. Representative Bill Goodling, a Pennsylvania Republican who guided the resolution through the House last week, argued that Penn's involvement in development of this country and his longstanding desire to make America his home warranted such special recognition. William Penn "spent a lifetime promoting peace and liberty and helped to establish the foundation for our great country," Mr. Goodling said. "It is only appropriate that we pay this one last tribute to him: citizenship in the United States of America."

My guess is that Goodling simply decided that this was an important issue and pushed it through.   Will Beback  talk  22:10, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

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Renaming

This new title is very clumsy. "Citizenship of the United States"? IMO, it should be restored to Honorary citizen of the United States. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:42, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

@Clarityfiend: It looks like it was just a bold move with no discussion by a user with <500 edits with no rationale offered. I don't think there's anything particularly keeping this here.

Could probably just boldly move this back, honestly, or hold a WP:RM. Only possibility is maybe calling it "Honorary citizens of the United States" - I know that the usual article title guideline prefers singular, but this is sorta closer to "List of honorary citizens of the United States" and those are plural by default. SnowFire (talk) 02:34, 23 November 2024 (UTC)