Talk:Hikikomori

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On Hikkikomori

Off-top discussion

Welcome to the NHK and this video portray only half the story. There are two types of hikikomori: hardcore (Satou and the man in this video) and borderline (Nishijou Takumi from Chaos:Head). The difference is borderline hikkis go out to go to school or work and at night to buy food because although they cannot fully go outside they are willing to stay out for as long as necessary because they have enough confidence to, hardcore hikikomori NEVER go outside. The main reason for people becoming hikikomori is they have PDDs (Asperger's Syndrome etc.) and thus are socially inept and as a result get bullied. Then the person who has the PDD becomes afraid of other humans because they are intelligent people anyway and can list humanity's many faults. Basically, people are not friendly if you are socially inept and so hikkis are afraid to go outside because there are many people outside. The majority (who as usual are wrong) are the problem and not the hiki. If you want people not to be hik kikomori you must give them a reason to come outside. Why do "normal" people go outside? To talk to PEOPLE. Why don't hikis go outside? To avoid PEOPLE. Nobody is a hikki for the fun of it, it's because the choice a PDD sufferer faces is go outside and be ridiculed by everyone or stay inside. Admit it, hikis and non-hikis alike, if people are nice to you would you go outside? Of course you would! Hikkis want girlfriends too but they limit themselves to anime girlfriends because real girls don't want them because they're socially inept and the anime girls can't refuse them to their faces. The worst level of hikikomori is Satou (no job and is not an otaku so won't easily be amused), in the middle we have Nishijou Takumi (borderline and because he is an otaku he can easily be amused) and the least stressful level of hikki is otaku hikki with a job. I am an otaku hikki with a job and I love it! Although Satou has too much time to do nothing I have too little time to do many things! I'm no t saying you should become an otaku hikki with a job I'm just saying I'm happy with my situation. It is a common stereotype of hikki that they shut out the sun (Satou, the man in this video are two examples). A reason is not given in either case so I ask why? I do shut out the sun because it looks so beautiful to a boy from a wet country that I can't concentrate on my writing (which requires a lot of concentration). Sources: 9 years of being a hikki (still am), 2 of those years as a hardcore and 7 as a borderline. Welcome to the NHK (all episodes) Chaos:Head (all episodes) I've completed the game Hikikomori Quest. The HF at getphpbb.com I'm not sure if the above is any help but I can't let 9 years go to waste. Sioraf (talk) 18:16, 22 January 2009 (UTC) Your classification of hikkikomoris sounds very interesting. If it's possible to add some reliable surveys or accounts on the broad spectrum of hikkikomoris, as opposed to the blunt designation of 'hikki' for few observable behaviors, the article would be more insightful. Protez (talk) 14:48, 19 February 2009 (UTC) Thank you. I had forgottten to reword it into prose (I am busy working on a novel and videogame) so I'm surprised it was of any use. I'll see what I can find, not much that is of any use with the way things currently are I think. By the way, in case anyone is wondering, Welcome to the NHK is inaccurate because it is more about Satou being a NEET rather than a hikikomori while Chaos;Head is accurate because Taku being an otaku is secondary to the fact that he is a hikikomori. Sioraf (talk) 01:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC) You're not a Hikikomori unless you live in Japan. This really can't be stressed enough. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.1.246.73 (talk) 13:07, 20 January 2010 (UTC) I've yet to see any authoritative source that has stated this. As a loanword, it is still quite new, and doesn't have a widely agreed upon meaning. -Verdatum (talk) 14:58, 20 January 2010 (UTC) Well, it came from Japan, it's a Japanese word etc. I'm not saying the symptoms don't exist elsewhere, and that there aren't people pretty much exactly like this throughout the West. But for an English speaking caucasian to call themselves "hikikomori" is just stupid. It's clearly only the Japanophiles doing it. If you want to reference the phenomenon in a more general context for comparative purposes, that's great. But I think forums like Hikiculture full of self-appointed "hikkis" are just going to confuse people who are new to the subject, filtering it as they do through a Western idolation of Japanese culture. The predominating ignorance is going to muddle up an already dubious sociological proposition (I mean, we're talking about something that was built on hype to begin with - I'm looking at you, Mr. "Oh, there aren't really one million shut-ins in our country" Saito). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.221.151.119 (talk) 12:24, 2 March 2010 (UTC) I take very serious issue with the comment that 'Hikikomoris only live in Japan' proper. Sorry but I am a Nikkei and living off the islands of Japan, but on the other side of the Pacific. Is Saito Tamaki wrong, the leading expert on this situation, he himself coined the term 'hikikomori'. He also has written a plethora of many books on the subject. He has also stated that being a hikikomori is indeed international. Cases have been found (just like in Japan) in Australia, India, and indeed the United States. Thus I am indeed a Nikkei hikikomori! I even suspect that Brasil has a hiki community as well. (Brasil has the largest diaspora of us Japanese on the planet). Please don't tell me this gobbly-gook that I am not a hikkikomori being Japanese simply because I am not physically within the borders of Japan, that to me is equaly offensive. Really, there is no other real name to call this unique situation worldwide other than by hikikomori. (Many terms originating in one language are indeed 'borrowed' i.e. adopted into the lexicon of other languages as well. No exception to hikikomori. Thank you kindly.71.204.149.10 (talk) 08:11, 22 April 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.204.149.10 (talk) 08:01, 22 April 2013 (UTC) The only thing 'japanese' about it is that it's recognized in Japan as an actual disorder whereas psychiatrists in other countries see the behavior as merely a sympton of depression. That doesn't make it a culturally-specific disease, it just means these other psychiatrists need to be educated about the specifics of hikikomori to prevent further misdiagnoses (and for the record: in my experience most are absolutely not like sioraf, who seems to be merely seeking a reason to hate on 'normals': most hikikomoris appear to be driven by *lack* of selfesteem as opposed to his humblebragging about being smart and finding everybody else to be full of fault. No wonder he has problems finding friends *facepalm*)Selena1981 (talk) 22:48, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

In popular culture

Section moved here. Items could be integrated:

• In the visual novel (and anime adaptation) Chaos;Head, the male protagonist, Takumi Nishijō, is described as a hikikomori.
• The novel (and manga/anime adaptation) Welcome to the N.H.K by Tatsuhiko Takimoto is a first person account of the hikikomori lifestyle.
• In the manga/anime Rozen Maiden, the male lead, Jun Sakurada, is a hikikomori.
• In the anime, Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei, a recurring character, Kiri Komori, is a hikikomori.
• In the 2001 novel Nippon Nipponia by Kazushige Abe, the main character, Haruo Toya, is a hikikomori- or incel-type figure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krimp Varkey (talk • contribs) 23:05, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
• In the manga/anime series Yamato Nadeshiko Shichi Henge, Sunako Nakahara, the main character, lives a hikikomori lifestyle.
• Hideo Aiba, protagonist of Sundome, pretends to be a hikikomori in front of his gym coach to avoid being caught ditching class.
• World War Z contains a story about a hikikomori survivor, although the word itself is not used, favoring the word "otaku" to describe the lifestyle.
• In the anime Hayate the Combat Butler, the female lead Sanzenin Nagi is a hikikomori.
• In the 2002 film Moon Overflowing the character (Koboreru Tsuki) is a hikikomori.
• In the drama Ikebukuro West Gate Park, the minor character Kazunori gradually loses his hikikomori status.
• In the dorama Seito Shokun!, one of the students in class 2–3, Shirai Naoki, became a hikikomori after a mountain climbing accident.
• Ultraklystron's 2007 CD, Opensource Lyricist, features a track entitled "Hikokomori," revolving around the lives of hikikomori.
• In the video game .hack, the character Endrance is a hikikomori.
• In the drama Dicey Business, Bosco Wong plays a hikikomori in modern day Hong Kong.
• The 2008 South Korean horror film Loner is about a girl who is a hikikomori
• In the 2008 three-part film Tokyo!, Teruyuki Kagawa plays a hikikomori, in the third part of the film entitled Shaking Tokyo.
• In Cat Street, a girl becomes a hikikomori after a traumatic incident.
• In the 2007 New Yorker short story "Sweetheart Sorrow" by David Hoon Kim, the main character has a Japanese girlfriend who is a hikikomori.
• The American Philidelphia based band Conservative Man released an album entitled Mirabel and the Hikikomori in 2006.
• In the anime/manga series Gin Tama, the character Tsu Terakado writes a pop single entitled "Your Brother is a Hikikomori".
• In the Nintento DS game "Tokimeki Memorial Girl's Side Second Season", Komori Taku is a Hikikomori who refuses to go to school and stays in his house. As the heroine, he is a dateable choice in the game. You can help him get back to school after long periods of going to his house.
• Madotsuki, the female protagonist of the computer game Yume Nikki, is a hikikomori who spends all possible time sleeping and roaming through her dream world.
• There is a freeware video game entitled "Hikikomori Quest" (a near-farcical parody of the Pokemon Game Boy games) in which the protagonist is flamed on the Internet then goes to the shop to prove to himself that he can go outside and come back home in one piece.
• In the webcomic Hetalia Axis Powers, the nation of Japan is portrayed as a hikikomori for approximately two hundred years, leading up to the arrival of the Black Ships. -- Whatever404 (talk) 02:02, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
• In yo-kai watch, there is a yo-kai named "Hikikōmori" (called hidabat in the english version). His name is a pun,as kōmori means bat. Masterball2 (talk) 15:45, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

I didn't know there was this section previously. I think the best way to do this is organize it by timeline. I'll begin to do so! Y12J (talk) 07:28, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Regarding external links

I'm restating the situation here in case anyone is missing the post above. No discussion forum related to Hikikomori should be linked. This is per WP:ELNO #10. "Except for a link to an official page of the article's subject, one should avoid...Links to...chat or discussion forums/groups". It is not Wikipedia's job to pick a favorite. If someone wants to find a forum on just about anything, they can Google it quite easily. If you don't like the guideline, you may want to discuss it at the guideline page. If you think there's a valid exception to the rule here, please justify your reasoning. Otherwise, I'll continue to remove them, thanks! -Verdatum (talk) 20:20, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Actual prevalence

The "Prevalence" section mentions an important estimate (20% of male adolescents), but also that that estimate was probably inaccurate. It doesn't mention any more accurate estimates. Do they exist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.165.106 (talk) 17:09, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

correct kanji

I consulted a few dictionaries because I wanted to know the etymology of the word hikikomori. In the article, the kanji read as the "ko" in "komori" is a kanji for "basket",籠, vs. komori as a form of komoru 篭る, to seclude or confine; neither kanji is found in my beginners dictionary. The kanji for hiki, 引き, or pull, is correct. Perhaps a few Japanese sources should be consulted to find the correct kanji for komori, and use hiragana to write it phonetically for the time being, 引きこもり. Diggnity (talk) 05:14, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

引き籠り　is correct (although 引き篭もり isn't necessarily incorrect). 籠 can = basket, but it also means to cage, coop or seclude oneself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.192.95.96 (talk) 14:05, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

recovery?

Some 引き籠もり recover and go on to lead normal lives. What is known about this? How many recover, and what can be done to help? Uucp (talk) 04:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

As one, I'd like to know too >_>

-G — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.51.111.147 (talk) 03:44, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Discussions of recovery and treatments here: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23182523 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.245.25.57 (talk) 10:50, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Not sure how much it helps you but my way was a combination of 'going slow' (step out of the house little by little, i liked riding a bike because it allowed me to get fresh air without communicating to people and the exercise helped restore a natural sleep-pattern, so i rode for an hour every day for over a year) and 'acceptance' (every time you f.e. feel embarrassed about being the oldest kid in class you remind yourself 'it would be worse to be still stuck in my room, i am no longer a coward who always hides in her room'). Hopefully someone has developed a proper treatment by this point, which you might use. But for me the therapy i got only made things worse: i didn't need pills and i didn't need strict rules and i didn't need to talk about my feelings. I knew perfectly well that i was stuck in an irrational circle of doubt and self-hatred and what i desperately needed was practical help breaking out (like finding a school that will take in a dropout and doesn't pre-assume they dropped out because of lack of intelligence or lack of work-ethic).

Anyhow, that's enough talking on a page that should be about the article and not about me Selena1981 (talk) 23:20, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

SPD

SPD (Schizoid personality disorder) could or should be added in Theories on cause. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.55.214.207 (talk) 00:49, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Hikikomori Illustration

There seem to be some resistance to the image. Please avoid deletionism and base your argument wisely as to why you think the image makes this a worse article rather than better:

• When deleting the image, user Pmt7ar argued: "how does this image depicts a hikikomori child? it doesn't. for starters, there are no child hikikomoris. starts from chû or kô. average age: 31"
  • Please back your claim about the absence of the Hikikomori phenomenon in children, if that is indeed the case, I think the whole article should be rewritten, but it is not the case, so it should not be rewritten and this is no excuse for the itching delete button. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mushonz (talk • contribs) 13:41, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Hikikomori is not a term applied to children. There is no such thing as child hikikomoris. Even government definition doesn't include them. The article itself doesn't mention it at all. Starting from the overview: Hikikomori is a Japanese term to refer to the phenomenon of reclusive adolescents or young adults who have chosen to withdraw from social life.

The references used later: The psychiatrist Tamaki Saitō defines hikikomori as "A state that has become a problem by the late twenties,. And even stats backs up its more an issue affecting adults than childs: about one third of whom are aged 30 and older.. It's too harsh to define a case of hikikomori on a child, I don't think its even possible, nor are studies of that particular group. On the contrary, studies starts from high school were social pressure starts affecting youngs. One of the earlier triggers for hikikomori's reclusion is failure in entering a high school or college. The image, also, doesn't reflect at all any charasteristic of a hikikomori. pmt7ar ^(talk) 14:01, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough, so if the main character in the illustration would have been an adolescents or young adults would that be a better fit? --Mushonz (talk) 18:30, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

And I must add, the picture was added by its own author without any base or relation to the topic (so, hikikomoris are represented by a child under ~10yo, sitting in a bed, with its drawer with a depiction of death classmates? what?), and bringing doubts of bias of pushing is own artwork. I was not the first to remove it. pmt7ar ^(talk) 14:07, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Re: accusations of bias. Why do you find visual contributions to Wikipedia more biased than textual ones? You are more than welcomed to join the discussion on these issues in WikipediaIllustrated.org an initiative aiming to develop better ways for visual contribution to Wikipedia. --Mushonz (talk) 18:30, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Reasonable doubts of bias, no accusations. I support any kind of contribution. But that image has no relation whatsoever with the article. It confuses and contradicts itself, specially with the caption "depiction of a __ child". I find visual contributions more bias-able than textual ones when it comes to an abstract concept (specially psychology related) when any representation is based purely on artistic values, thus subjective of the author. This "depiction" needs too much explanation, if even possible, to link it to "hikikomori". Why a child? What social pressure suffer a child that age? Why on bed? Why blood and death on a drawer? Hikikomoris are killers? Psychopats?. The image has a high interpretation value thus its itself a quite biased image (and its not the subject of the article, like it would be an arts or style related article).

And there is already a popular conception of "hikikomori" (middle-aged man, using pc, small room full of garbage bags, etc) which is much more related to it that a kid on a bed with death classmates on a drawer. pmt7ar ^(talk) 23:34, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Pmt7ar So how do we know if this image is related to Hikikomori? Bijdenhandje (talk) 19:59, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Related disorders, citation issue templates

I recently fixed a syntax mistake in an attempt to add the {{unreferenced section}} template. It was dated by AnomieBOT to the current month. Should I change the month to read July, to correspond to the original attempt?

Do we need both {{unreferenced section}} and {{citation needed}} anyway? If not, should the latter be removed? SoledadKabocha (talk) 01:04, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

BBC news article

Can be found here. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 13:49, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Merge Dokuo with Hikikomori

Against merge [Dokuo] with [Hikikomori]. They aren't the same thing because females can be Hikikomori. Derpian (talk) 04:22, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Against the two terms are not related. Alexlur (talk) 00:52, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Photo

What proof do we have that that person really is a hikikomori, and not just an ordinary Japanese young man? The photo only serves to consolidate prejudices against hikikomori.--Mycomp (talk) 05:51, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

It's from a documentary that was up on YouTube. Can't find it now for whatever reason. Although I feel like using an image in this article is pointless. Myonmiya (talk) 06:25, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

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Not only Japan has shutters

All countries have "shutters", but countries with great traditions (important traditions cause more stress to these people than thorough westernization, because traditions want you to do or to follow or to believe things chosen by the tradition and not by the individual) and higher average IQ have more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2149:821E:7800:F93C:28ED:282B:C51B (talk) 14:37, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

A Disorder?

Is it a disorder to enjoy being alone? Seems kinda like throwing a party and then trash talking the people who didn't want to come. Why should they? What does modern social life give them? What is so great about eating out when you can build robots in your bedroom? 71.65.251.155 (talk) 12:59, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Omori (the video game)

Two unregistered users have opposed the inclusion of adding Omori (video game) to the See also section, one of them arguing that the game "does not have hikikomori solely as it's focus nor is it even mentioned anywhere" else. I've reverted the removal at least twice and, since this could otherwise advance to the point of an edit war, I decided to mention the title here, especially since there's no consensus I can find about it in the talk archives or anything else established. Carlinal (talk) 22:37, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Whether contributors are registered or not is of no relevance. Can you link to third-party sources discussing the significance of the video game to the topic of this article? Because otherwise, this looks like promotion, or unsourced trivia. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:42, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Omori (The RPG)

Not to be annoying, apologies if I am, but Omori and the comic it hails from (Omoriboy) as far as I'm aware did popularize the usage of the term Hikikomori among American audiences due to the popularization of the game in 2020, so shouldn't it be mentioned? If not the game the comic did have some focus on Omoriboy's life as a hikikomori despite it mostly being stereotypical. (Apologies if this is redundant due to rules I’m unaware of, I’m not a prominent Wikipedia user, this was just a thought I had.) Usrnmee (talk) 05:45, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

While I do think you are to some extent correct in regards to the game popularising "hikikomori" to western audiences, though I would argue the term has been already pretty popular in western otaku spaces and related east-asian/western communities for a pretty long time far before the game came out (4chan for instance was largely founded by these rather introverted communities, who had found a deep connection with "hikikomori's" which they have known about most likely through the east-asian art, anime, manga, games and music which mention the topic) and since OMOcat was also apart of the otaku community, it makes sense that she most likely also had discovered the term "hikikomori" from the same sources as other western otaku have or by the otaku's in said community themselves.

While I am a serious, SERIOUS fan of the game, I don't think Omori would be the most important form of media that should be linked in the "see also" section, since it doesn't really give major focus to the phenomena of someone living a realistic hikikomori life as other media which also discuss the condition in greater detail (eg, Welcome to the NHK) does and instead utilizes the protagonist's shut-in behavior more as a vehicle to explore the protagonist's inner world and hidden trauma through the experience of dreams as opposed intending to represent a semi-realistic, down-to-earth portrayal of hikikomori lifestyles, though I will say I do think the comic does give a fairly semi-realistic portrayal of a young hikikomori boy (though it too is artistically embellished to a great degree) and while I greatly appreciate it as a former young borderline shut-in myself, I don't think the comic is noteworthy enough since most people only know about "Omori" for the game, and the comic had around several pannels before being dumped by OMOcat to instead turn the idea into a game. 72.53.87.227 (talk) 05:33, 17, Feb, 2024 (UTC)