Talk:Halki (Greece)

Untitled

Added a couple of external links Popher 15:54, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Halki or Chalki

In my experience the usual modern English spelling of the name is Halki (which gives 1,080,000 results on Google) rather than Chalki (74,700) or Khalki (15,100). If others agree - or if no-one disagrees - I propose moving the article to the heading Halki. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

In the absence of any opposition to my suggestion, I'll move the article.Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move to Halki (Greece) JohnCD (talk) 11:25, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

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Chalki → Halki (Greece) — Halki is overwhelmingly the most common transliteration in English. -- Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:35, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

• Support the move. While Chalki is a more correct transliteration, Halki is more used in English language books. Halki is also closer to what the English speaker hears when the name is pronounced in Greek. --Bejnar (talk) 04:22, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Chalki or Halki

I must have missed this move request to Halki. English usage is not so overwhelmingly in favour of Halki as suggested above. I searched Google Books, adding the term "Greece" in order to get English language results, and excluding "chalice" because it interferes with "Chalce". The results: Chalki 2220, Halki 3200, and Chalce 3100. In order to get an idea about changes in usage, I also excluded editions before 1961: Chalki 1240, Halki 2370, and Chalce 1060.

I see no reason to deviate from Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Greek), since usage is not overwhelmingly (say >90%) in favour of Halki. Markussep ^Talk 08:21, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

We are not talking, primarily, about classical usage; we are talking about modern usage. "If there is a common anglicization of a Greek proper name, it should be used in an English language context." The figures from Google books are likely to be skewed by academic books dealing with ancient history. General Google web usage is an better measure in this instance. Currently, Halki finds 9,440,000 results, Chalki has 150,000, and Khalki has 34,900. The results for that measure are not remotely close - Halki has 98% of hits. Common usage in English is overwhelmingly in favour of using H in this case. The reason that H is used more in modern English is that, in English, "Ch" is usually pronounced "tsh", which is clearly incorrect in this case. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:47, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Chalki is not classical usage, that's Chalce (or Chalke). From what I see on the first results pages, not many of them are about antiquity. Really, plain Google is not a good source for English usage. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Widely accepted name. Britannica has Chalki. Markussep ^Talk 11:04, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Britannica also apparently has "Lipsoí" and "Nísuros", which are most definitely not common usages, so its claim to reliability on this is diminished! I recognise there are arguments on both sides, but I think that the case for using the H form in this case is very strong. It is increasingly the case that sources such as atlases use the H form for many Greek names, to overcome the pronunciation issue to which I alluded previously (and which I suspect is down to the much reduced level of classical language education in schools over recent decades). For example, Hania is now, I would suggest, more widely used than Chania, and I think that Hersonissos rather than any alternative spelling is now used almost exclusively in English sources. Currently, there are two editors (myself and Bejnar) in favour of using the H form, and one opposed. I suggest we encourage a wider variety of editors to be involved. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

If pronunciation is the main argument I have some move candidates as well, e.g. Cholmondeley and nearly every Welsh town. Now seriously, I get the impression that the "H" versions are mainly (exclusively?) used in tourism contexts, whereas other publications (science, politics) have a (slight?) preference for "Ch" versions. Your suggestion to involve more editors is good, we could announce it at WP:GREECE. Markussep ^Talk 15:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Halki makes more sense to me, partly because I loathe 15th century Erasmian spellings, and partly because the Ch confuses a lot of non-Greek speakers. But it's hard to make a case one way or the other for Wikipedia. The official website of the island uses the Ch spelling. This doesn't mean much - I guarantee no one was sitting in that little town hall thinking about spellings! The H spelling is probably at least as common as Ch in current usage, as long as we're not talking about historical documents, so I'd go with that. Nojamus (talk) 23:16, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Emporio and Chorio

The article says the community is divided into Emporio (Εμπόριο) and Chorio (Χωρίο). This raises two issues:

-The accents in the Greek translations of the words are wrong; I've changed the words to Χωριό and Εμποριό.

-The Greek wiki article on this island doesn't mention "Chorio" as being a division of the community. It only talks about Emporio. So is there such a geographic disctinction? (I can think of two reasons why this may have been written erroneously: First, chorio just means village, so strictly speaking, Emporio is a chorio. Alternately, the editor may have meant to write "chora", which is the common name for the main town on any island. Either way, chorio/chora are not worthy of mention in this context.)Nojamus (talk) 23:38, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

The village "Chorio" is mentioned on this page of Chalki municipality http://www.dimoschalkis.gr/portal/chalki/mnimeia.html as being abandoned. The main village is apparently mostly called "Chalki", but also "Nimporio" (Νημποριό) and "Emporio" (Εμποριό). And here they write it with a sigma: http://www.dimoschalkis.gr/portal/chalki/arxitektonikh.html "Nimporios" (Nημποριός). Markussep ^Talk 08:38, 4 July 2012 (UTC)