Talk:Gentle on My Mind

Attribution discussion

I've removed the following from the lede. It needs a citation. It also seems to have too undue weight for the lede. If it gets a citation, perhaps it should mentioned in a sentence in the lede and have a paragraph below.

This song whose authorship is attributed to John Hartford is both harmonically and melodically nearly identical to a substantial portion of Brazilian composer Dorival Caymmi's 1954 version of his song "O Mar" (which also exists in a 1940 version that is orchestrated and more harmonically complex.) That 1940 Brazilian song has a structure of A-B-C-D-D-D-Tag-C, and the three D Sections appear to be the foundation for "Gentle On My Mind" which has the same basic harmonic structure (with some added passing chords) and the same basic melody (with some slight rhythmic variation.) This poses the question as to whether John Hartford was familiar with Dorival Caymmi's 1954 version of Caymmi's own composition "O Mar" and may have subconsciously taken its D-Section melody & harmonies and based his own composition ("Gentle On My Mind") on the earlier Brazilian song.

--John (User:Jwy/talk) 04:06, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 23 November 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure)​ — Newslinger talk 16:05, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

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• Gentle on My Mind (song) → Gentle on My Mind
• Gentle on My Mind → Gentle on My Mind (disambiguation)

– All of the other works named "Gentle on My Mind" derive their name from the song due to its appearance. Usually the album gets top billing and the title track follows the "Name (song)" format (e.g. Born to Fly -> Born to Fly (song)), "Gentle on My Mind" has widely been recorded by multiple artists and seems to be the WP:PRIMARY topic for all things named "Gentle on My Mind". Between this and the fact that all other works by that name are derived from the song, I think the song should get top billing in this case. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 17:55, 23 November 2019 (UTC) —Relisting. ~~ CAPTAIN MEDUSA^talk 07:18, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

• Support. We don't decide primary topic by considering what anyone thinks "should get top billing". We decide mainly on which (if any) of the topics are most likely to be sought by users searching with the ambiguous title. And the data most often used to make this determination is relative page views. I was going to oppose because no such argument was presented, but then decided to check on the page views myself. The song is clear the primary topic. --В²C ☎ 20:39, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Gentle on My Mind/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 10:52, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Over a month old and another review for the GAN backlog drive! --K. Peake 10:52, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Nice working with you again!--GDuwenHoller! 19:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Same to you for sure! --K. Peake 21:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• The body only sources the title as being "Washing Machine", plus where have you got the year from?
• Shouldn't a release date be sourced in the body and used here for original artist John Hatford (year only if nothing else is known), or add a note about what version was really released?
• WP:OVERLINK of John Hartford under songwriter(s)
• Remove RCA Records from the opening sentence since that is mentioned later on and instead add "for his second studio album, Earthwords & Music (1967)" with the wikilink
• Add a second sentence about how Hartford composed the song
• The third sentence should instead be the one about the song being released in 1967 as a single by Hartford, but source this in the body
• Follow the above with one about the lyrical content
• "It was later popularized by Glen Campbell," → "It ended up being popularized by Campbell," making this the sentence after the Grammys
• "The song then caught the attention of Campbell, who" → "The song caught the attention of Glenn Campbell after release; he" at the start of the second para
• Lowercase the Wrecking Crew per MOS:THEMUSIC
• Pipe Hot Country Singles to Hot Country Songs
• "by several artists including" → "by several artists, including"
• Remove the Elvis Presley version from the lead per lack of notability and add a comma before and for correct grammar
• "and was also" → "It was also" as a new sentence, but add some examples here
• Lowercase the Band Perry

• The entire title is not detailed by the article source, but it appears on the B-side of the 7" single. Since the infobox is considered a citation in of itself, I wrote the entire title.
• I've used the Cashbox review as a citation to clarify that the recording actually came out in May. The Cashbox review is from May 6, and there is also this Billboard piece from the exact same day that it details his touring to promote the single

Rest of the points also done.--GDuwenHoller! 20:49, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying the B-side part and you are correct in stating the infobox itself can work as a source, also good job on the Cashbox ref; the Billboard piece can be added there as an additional citation. --K. Peake 09:27, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Writing and original recording

• Add the release year of the film
• "Inspired by the film's love story depicted in the movie" → "Inspired by love story depicted in the film"
• "in between 20 and" → "in around 20 or"
• Pipe drifter to Vagrancy
• "She questioned Hartford" → "She questioned John Hartford" per MOS:SAMESURNAME
• What part(s) of the last three sentences is [4] being used for, exactly?
• "In 1992, Hartford" → "12 years later, Hartford" to avoid starting two consecutive sentences with the same word
• "to the film, and said the content is" → "to Doctor Zhivago, and said the content was"
• "Hartford described the composition" → "He described the composition"
• Wikilink banjo
• Pipe chorus to Refrain
• "At the time" specify what this is referring to, as you are beginning a new para here
• "who took it to" → "who took the demo to"
• "to sell them but" → "to sell them, but"
• "to the songwriter should use" → "to the songwriter to use"
• Why is there no Good Old Electric in brackets next to "Washing Machine" here like you have done in the infobox; same about 1943?
• Around this point, mention when the original was released
• Should flipside be piped to A-side and B-side?
• Pipe country to Country music
• "undert its "Best Bets", and it forecasted on its review" → "under their "Best Bets"; the magazine forecasted in a review"

I didn't include the year of the film because of its use at the beginning of the sentence, as it came out that same year (and it would read a little awkward, at least to me).

[4] is used to mention the part that they divorced, as well as the divorce being one of the reasons he wrote the song. In [3], his former wife mentions that she was suspicious that their relationship was part of the inspiration. So I would say one source completes the other to give us a more consistent picture.

The source refers to it just as "Washing Machine", but it appears on the record label with the full name. I could add it, but if so I would have to add another citation to the single itself or something along those lines.--GDuwenHoller! 19:44, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Glenn Campbell's recording and success

• Wikilink Glenn Campbell on the img text
• "At the time Campbell" → "At the time, Campbell"
• Lowercase the Wrecking Crew per MOS:THEMUSIC
• "slight production arrangements" → "slight production arrangements that"
• "Hot Country Songs[23] and" → "Hot Country Songs,[23] and"
• "to the pop music market." → "to the pop market." with the pipe
• Add info to the audio sample text about the comp at the beginning
• Remove excess space between the comma and [29]
• The categories Hartford's version won should come before which ceremony this was at, though the others are fine since you use "as well as"
• "of 50 artists had recorded covers of "Gentle on my Mind"," → "50 artists had recorded covers of "Gentle on My Mind","
• "sold 600,000 singles." → "had sold 600,000 singles."
• Either add more info or remove the Elvis Presley version per WP:SONGCOVER
• Add a comma before the usage of and
• "the Billboard Hot 100 and at 50" → "the Billboard Hot 100 and at number 50"
• Write out the chart numbers for Dean Martin's version per MOS:NUM
• "and at number 9 on" → "and number 9 on"

Well, I think the info about Presley's version is now enough to keep it. There's the Felton Jarvis connection (most likely why it was recorded, together with the success of Aretha Franklin's), and the fact that he lost his voice after that recording. Makes sense when you hear his version (and the fact that bibliography happens to comment on the fact that his voice sounded a little rougher, and that it contributed to give the song a bit of a special atmosphere). I don't think the latter part is too relevant for this article, as we can leave it to the reader and just stick to the facts.--GDuwenHoller! 21:29, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Legacy

• "In 1984," → "14 years later," to avoid starting too many sentences with in
• "radio in the United States." → "radio in the US." per MOS:US
• "1992 list of" → "1992 list of the" plus only keep this sentence as beginning with "it" if you mean Campbell's version
• "placed it at" → "placed the version at" or "placed the song at", depending on if this is Campbell's version or the original
• "in the United States behind" → "in the US, behind"
• Lowercase the Beatles per MOS:THEMUSIC and add the release year of the song
• Lowercase the Band Perry
• "on the Hot Country Songs charts." → "on Hot Country Songs."
• "increased by 6,000%." → "increased by over 6,000%." per the source
• "digital download figure" → "digital downloads figure"

 Done--GDuwenHoller! 21:46, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Accolades

• The ref col should not be sortable
• Pipe the first instance of Grammy Awards to 10th Annual Grammy Awards and the second to 57th Annual Grammy Awards

 Done--GDuwenHoller! 21:46, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Charts

John Hatford

• Weekly chart performance → Weekly chart performance of

 Done--GDuwenHoller! 21:47, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Glenn Campbell

• Scrap the year col because the years listed are two consecutive ones; add (1967-68) in brackets instead
• Make the peak position col sortable
• There should be an organization in brackets for the Australia chart; maybe it is Australian Music Report (Kent)?
• Per my previous comment about the years being consecutive, only keep the overall peaks for Hot 100 and Hot Country Songs

I would in this case keep the distinction between the two years since one relates to the original release, while the second one of 68' was a re-release that was a consequence to the success of "By the Time I Get to Phoenix".--GDuwenHoller! 21:49, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Other artists

• Remove the Billboard Hot 100 position for Dean Martin, as 103 is not a correct one even if it reached the Bubbling Under chart that is logged separately from the former
• If the above version reached number 3 on the Bubbling Under Hot 100 Singles chart, then change to that instead of 103 because this chart is separate from the Hot 100

Seems like I can't account for the chart. The source is gone, and I don't find it at the time on Billboard magazine archival issues. I'll remove it for the time being to restore it in case I can locate a proper source.--GDuwenHoller! 19:55, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

References

• Copyvio score looks solid as rock at 14.5%!!!
• Ref 24 should be cited as a source like the other citations that aren't from the chart table
• Country Ameria staff 1992 → Country America staff 1992 on ref 51
• Pipe The State to The State (newspaper) and wikilink Newspapers.com (on the first instance)
• Wikilink Associated Press on the first instance
• Wikilink Skyhorse Publishing on the first instance
• Pipe Billboard to Billboard (magazine) and wikilink Google Books on their first instances
• Pipe BMI to Broadcast Music, Inc.
• Wikilink Rolling Stone'
• Wikilink Chicago Review Press
• Wikilink Simon & Schuster
• Pipe Villard Books to Villard (imprint)
• Pipe Cashbox to Cashbox (magazine)
• Pipe Advance Local Media to Advance Publications
• Country Ameria staff → Country America staff
• Wikilink Los Angeles Times
• Pipe The Atlanta Constitution to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
• Wikilink Rowman & Littlefield
• Wikilink Green Bay Press-Gazette
• Pipe Miller Freeman Books to Miller Freeman, Inc.
• Wikilink The Tennessean on the first instance
• Pipe The Wichita Beacon to The Wichita Eagle
• Wikilink University of California Press
• Wikilink New York Daily News
• Pipe IRMA to Irish Recorded Music Association
• Wikilink Wesleyan University Press
• Wikilink Telegram & Gazette
• Pipe Faber & Faber to Faber and Faber
• Wikilink St. Louis Post-Dispatch
• Wikilink Oxford University Press
• Pipe The Official UK Charts Company to Official Charts Company
• Wikilink ABC-Clio
• Wikilink Reuters
• Wikilink Omnibus Press
• Pipe Record Research to Joel Whitburn

 Done--GDuwenHoller! 21:07, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

External links

• Mention that the lyrics are on John Hartford's website

 Done--GDuwenHoller! 21:10, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until everything has been resolved; sorry if that was not as fast as in the past! --K. Peake 10:20, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: Alright, it took a while longer for me to assess the points this time too. But that should do it.--GDuwenHoller! 21:11, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

GDuwen Very good job but I have two concerns remaining: why is there no organization in brackets for the Australian chart and shouldn't you split the chart years for Campbell's version into two tables? --K. Peake 08:20, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: There you go. I didn't see any need to separate the Campbell charts in two tables, but anyhow, it doesn't do any harm either.--GDuwenHoller! 19:01, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

GDuwen ✓ Pass now, I made the charts suggestion because it is awkward having a chart twice in a table and users should be able to sort through the positions separately for the years, also I did fix the alignment since the chart names were centered too. --K. Peake 21:19, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: Thanks once again for a quick and objective review, much appreciated.--GDuwenHoller! 21:49, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 10:38, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Glen Campbell in 1967

• ... that Glen Campbell's (pictured) version of "Gentle on My Mind" became the second most played song in Radio in the United States by 2001? Source: Cromelin, Richard (June 6, 2001). "John Hartford; Penned Pop Hit 'Gentle on My Mind'". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved October 6, 2021 – via Newspapers.com.
  • ALT1: ... that John Hartford wrote "Gentle on My Mind" in 20 to 30 minutes after seeing Doctor Zhivago in 1966? Source: Browne, David (June 16, 2020). "Inside the John Hartford Revival". Rolling Stone. Retrieved October 6, 2021.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Scottish Prayer Book (1929)
  • Comment: The image is pertinent only to the main hook

Improved to Good Article status by GDuwen (talk). Self-nominated at 21:04, 26 January 2022 (UTC).

• Substantial article, meeting of GA criteria implicates DYK pass. Article is well-written and cited. Only ping on Earwigs is for a long proper title. QPQ has been completed. Hooks are interesting, cited, and short enough for DYK. Morgan695 (talk) 00:33, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Modified ALT1 to T:DYK/P1 without image

Different Verse

Patti Page also recorded the song, and Glen Campbell himself re-recorded it as a duet with Bobbie Gentry on the album they did together. On those two versions, there is a verse I have not heard elsewhere, obviously written for a woman to sing. Does anyone know if John Hartford wrote that extra verse later, or if someone else wrote it but remained uncredited? I tried at one time to ask this of Hartford, Campbell, and Al de Lory (who did the arrangement on the Campbell/Gentry version), but they have all died now, and I don't know how to reach Gentry. Rich (talk) 08:00, 21 October 2023 (UTC)