Talk:Gangster

Cleanup

I've listed this page for cleanup again as of today, partly because 'gangsta' redirects here and I feel we need to describe that subculture a little more or (what is probably wiser) link to another page doing so. Thomas Ash 17:03, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've done a complete copyedit-cum-rewrite. I certainly wouldn't claim this is a great article in its current form, but its at least passable. So I've removed to cleanup tag. But since my 'gangsta' point still stands (and I lack the knowledge to correct it) I've added a sectstub tag there. Hope this helps, Thomas Ash 14:53, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

I have reflagged this page for cleanup. It comes across as horribly facile and lacks any sort of encyclopaedic authority and gravitas. I will give it some attention myself also. Sjc 04:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

NPOV?

Isn't this entire article kind of POV and subjective? I mean, by some of these definitions, a lot of politicians or businessmen could be considered gangsters, and a lot of gangsters would be considered businessmen or politicians. There are like 100 articles on Mafia, Mom, Ngrand whatever, Yakuza, Russian and Mexican Mafia, etc. so do we really need something on gangsters too? Too generic and POV, I think. Flannel 00:19, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The definition of "gangster" is broader than people think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.172.135.42 (talk) 06:11, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Thats not the problem, this whole thing is written entirely from an american viewpoint, thats the problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.76.52.19 (talk) 18:34, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

"G" as a slang reference for gansta

The change by User:206.174.28.248 on 25 June 2006 removed a lot of text about the slang term gansta, and especially the use of the letter "G" in colliquial reference. Originally I had merged that text as it had originally been added to the letter G article. I have no problem with this removal, but if there is no longer any verifyable discussion of the use of the letter "G", I am going to remove the disambiguation link on the G article which points here. If this use is later added back with verifiable sources to this article, then someone may want to again re-add the link on the letter G article. -- Dmeranda 18:44, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

On the letter G article, the slang reference for "G" is now primarily linked to gansta rap (under music) rather than to this article.--Dmeranda 18:39, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Godfather? Goodfellas? Casino? Gangs in films need a little editing.

Are these movies "gangster" movies? Godfather it's 1920s gangster if anything. Goodfellas I would say yes, but Casino I'd say hold the phone on Casino. Especially with Sam Rothstein. Nicky Santoro (Pesci) is definatly a gangster in that film, but Sam Rothstein doesn't quite feel "gangster" to me.

I think if they are gangster movies they should all be meantioned, especially godfather prominently not washed away under a character. If not then we need an explination of what makes Godfather different because that would explain a lot.

In addition gangsters in films needs work. First off who's "the game" and why is he listed first? Why is the Krays even listed? we have a list of 4 rappers, then we get into actors and start listing every film they've been in? Shouldn't we just list the rapper straight up not what movies they did. And for the movies list the movie and if a particular roll was gangster (Third man, Public Enemy Number one) then identify the specific role. Perhaps we need to look into which rappers, actors and films are notable, for instance joe pesci, de niro and pacino always had some sort gangster related roles however liotta, travolta, jackson and rhames did it one time. This could help this section so it doesn't disolve into every gangster ever in the media's eye. In addition it will also help organize the section as a full list of actors who played a gangster one time won't help but a list of movies with gangsters in it will help.

Some Things Removed...

Upon reading this article, I noticed some person added info about them being a "gangsta", as well as their friends... i've taken the liberty of removing this. --ScottRocks 01:17, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Why not just delete this article?

Seems like this is more something for Wiktionary. It would make more sense just to have this redirect to mafia or leave it as a disambiguation page. --85.210.33.72 16:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I suggest merging this stub with Gang, especially since this article contains some of the "world view" information that is missing from Gang.-Robotam 13:18, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

No one has objected/disputed merger of this entry into Gangster, since I first suggested it in June. In fact, the article has gotten smaller. Therefore, it is time to be bold and merge it.-RoBoTam^ice 19:43, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Lame picture

Instead of this lame emulation of the ancient gangster appearance which would rather belong on hotchickswithdouchebags.com provided these three gentlemen were found in company of a cutie, could we replace this lame picture with either an actual photograph of one of these famous gangsters or at least a still from a gangster movie depicting accurately enough what this article is painfully trying to describe? --88.166.144.55 11:37, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Agree with the anon user and I have thus removed the image in question. I assume it was put there in good faith, but it adds nothing to the article and actually could be interpreted as a bit of a joke. If this article (which I'm not even sure we need to have) is going to include an image, it should be some sort of visual representation of an actual gangster or gangsters, not a random photo of a few fellows in suits affecting a (vaguely) gangsterish pose. Although there is probably something much better, this fair use photo of Al Capone (used in the Wiki article on him) would do nicely for this article, though again I'm sure there's a number of other options.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 07:25, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Text added

This article previously contained only about 2 sentences so expanded on the article. This provides a good start for the final complete version of "gangster". I will go through tomorrow and add pictures. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UTlonghorn8988 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Revert back to stub

I was willing to give the anonymous user some time to expand the article and flesh it out, then I looked at the references being used, and changed my mind:

  1. ^ The Online Marriam-Webster Dictionary http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gangster
  2. ^ http://www.gripe4rkids.org/his.html
  3. ^ http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Al_capone
  4. ^ http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=6677
  5. ^ http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/prohibition_and_the_gangsters.htm
  6. ^ http://www.askmen.com/top_10/entertainment_60/85c_top_10_list.html
  7. ^ http://www.answers.yahoo.com/question/index? qid=20080418023955AAZZ6IF

None of that comes close to the kind of references needed. A Yahoo answers link, for god's sake?! -

Maybe the citations aren't top notch, but most of the additions are pretty good. The citations can be improved. Plus, by reverting all that work you basically guarantee that the anon will leave and never return, making us one user poorer. Instead of scrapping the whole work as beyond repair, let it stay and fix the references and educate the motivated and well-intentioned newcomer. After all, if we deleted every article with less than perfect refs, we wouldn't have a Wikipedia. I'm re-reverting for now, and placing a citation banner of some kind on the page. – ClockworkSoul 16:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

With all due respect, what you have said here sounds terribly naive. I realize we are supposed to assume good faith and not bite the newcomers, but at some point, we have to face the fact that not everyone is going to be a positive contributor. This is, to my mind, a simple and unavoidable truth. Since our primary purpose here is to build an encyclopedia, not to build a community, there is no good purpose in encouraging "everyone" to be a contributor.

Now, as to the matter of this user's edits, I have to very strongly disagree with your contention that "most of the additions are pretty good." Just a few examples:

A gangster is a criminal who is a member of a crime organization, such as a gang. The term gangster is most commonly used in reference to members of the criminal organizations associatedA gangster is a criminal who is a member of a crime organization, such as a gang.[1] The word ‘gangsta’ is portrayed in the media through music, movies, and television. The true American gangster is different than that of the media. Some examples of real gangsters are Al Capone, Lucky Luciano, and Roy DeMeo. These members where a part of a gang that strived to better themselves or their close ones by conning the government or anyone else that would lead to a profit. These gangsters influenced the American society and law enforcement. They had tremendous power and sometimes the law could not even compete with these American gangsters. Some ways they ruled was through violence and persuasion of money.

Most of that is simply rubbish which should be deleted altogether. For example, "part of a gang that strived to better themselves or their close ones by conning the government or anyone else that would lead to a profit," is a contention that, I dare say, can never be sourced or proven. The rest is so poorly written it would have to be rewritten from scratch. Better to go back to the stub and use it as a lede.

Further on, we have the "history of gangsters" section which offers:

Gangs and gangsters have been around people and cultures have existed. The word thug dates back to India in 1200 A.D. when groups of criminals would go through villages pillaging for themselves. These ‘thugs’ had their own symbols, hand shakes, and hand signs just like the gangsters of modern America. Throughout the 1800’s in America, outlaws ruled the west, such as Billy the kid and the James gang. As the American society and culture developed, new immigrants were migrating to the U.S. One of the first influential and popular gang was the Five Points Gang. During the late 1800’s and early 1900’s, the streets of New York were ruled by Irish Gangs (Whyos, Dead Rabbits and Plug Uglies) and other Jewish gangs like the Monk Eastman gang. These immigrants came to America and controlled and ran the streets all over major U.S. cities. They recruited local New Yorkers which led to popularity in gangs. Al “Scarface” Capone became one of the most influential gangsters in to 20’s and 30’s. The lower income population and ghettos loved the idea of being in a gang because they found a way to earn money without an education. Gangs started to be formed based on race which led to ‘gang wars’ and social chaos. [2]

Skip the first sentence, which simply makes no sense, because it is an incomplete thought. The discussion of the Thugee in India is irrelevant, poorly written, unreferenced, and largely incorrect. Then, a brief, passing mention of the Western outlaws, which is not germane to this topic. Followed by more poorly written, simplistic, unreferenced, and incorrect assertions about New York gangs (the Plug Uglies, for one example, were not a New York gang, nor were they Irish).

And on it goes from there... I could give more examples, but it would mean quoting the entire article here. Better, I think, to go back to the stub and start again. Editing and improving this mess is largely a fool's errand. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 18:52, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Talk Page from Mobster REDIRECT

I created this stub article from a redirect to Organized crime on the principle of least astonishment because that article never even mentioned the term. Ultimately, it might be better to transfer this article's contents into the other article and into Wiktionary (which currently does not have an entry for "mobster"), but I was in a hurry to do a lot of cleanup work, and felt that this was a reasonble start. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:53, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I never heard the expression "Moobster" and I've lived in Sweden all my life so I'm gonna go ahread and delete it. Flexxx 00:29, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good,I will redirect. -RoBoTam^ice 15:35, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Edits from Revisions

I took your suggestions and revisions to the article and expanded on them. I am the original creator of this article and am open to suggestions on how to better improve it. I will take your input to revise the article, just please don't delete this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UTlonghorn8988 (talk • contribs) 00:55, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

whoops

accidentaly did a incorrect spelling edit. please fix. i missplelled Sopranos in the first paragraph.--Cubby300 (talk) 17:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Gangsters other than American mobsters

Gangsters can include gangs from other countries. This article highlights only the white gangsters in America's history. There are other foreign gangs such as the 14K in Macau, the Hong Xing in Hong Kong, the Axe Gang in Shanghai and so on. Minority gangsters in America are also left out, such as the Crips and Bloods. I suggest creating a page that summarizes what gangsters do in general and adding links to articles that deal specifically in certain gangs.

Yeokaiwei (talk) 20:49, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Having only white gangsters is actually racist; despite it being an attempt not to look racist. CensoredScribe (talk) 15:24, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Edit request from 212.216.211.182, 15 July 2011 Please add links to John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde (film)

Please add links to John Dillinger and Bonnie and Clyde (film)

212.216.211.182 (talk) 17:07, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

 Not done i dont think picking out those two for separate mention in the article is justified. Monkeymanman (talk) 20:57, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

"Gangstas" section questionable

The section provides very little info on the topic, except a short description of "gangsta" attire, the contents of which seem very questionable as almost all the items are typical urban fashion such as "flat brimmed hats". That correlation seems almost prejudiced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.251.231.70 (talk) 06:50, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 68.14.134.232, 22 July 2011

A " Gangster " is Lettycia Diaz

68.14.134.232 (talk) 17:18, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Jnorton7558 (talk) 01:19, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

First gangs

According to EOS magazine juli/august 2011, the first gangs were Jewish (1920-1940). However, they did not appear as such in movies due to the fact that allot of Jewish owners of moviecompanies were against showing Jews in movies as gangsters. So, Italians and Irish were depicted as gangsters as these were also on the rise in that period. However, the whole concept of specific ethnic groups as being the main sources of organised crime seems flawed, and there is a tendency of US Americans to attribuate all wrongs to non-nationals (alien conspiracy theory). This vision has been put forward by Robert K. Merton and his strain-theory.

Jewish organised crime was romanticised by Russian writers (--> Benja Krik by Isaac Babel), Haunch, Paunch and Jowl by Samuel Ornitz, Jews without Money by Michael Gold.

91.182.69.10 (talk) 14:05, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

That's silly, gangs are far older than that. Didn't you see Gangs of New York? Gangs are hundreds or thousands of years old. 72.228.189.184 (talk) 04:12, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

References

Fails to note political sense

"Gangster" is a term commonly used politically to refer to any a participant in a conspiracy against the public interest, not just the standard criminal orgs, for example as recently used by Wang Lijun in referring to Bo Xilai. Deserves a place. 72.228.189.184 (talk) 04:10, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Comment removed from article

Drug dealers are not gangsters, whoever wrote this must be mentally ill, and if you think Pablo Escobar is a gangster you are retarded. --187.194.184.244

No idea how much can be done with this, but I thought it might be right to put it here. Cathfolant (talk) 22:09, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Definition of gangster?

I think this page is equally as problematic as terrorist. Does the legal definition of a gangster vary by country or does it universally meana group of more than three people who dress similarly and commit a crime? That would make many war criminals gangsters as well because soldiers dress the same, is the Spanish inquisition a gang? CensoredScribe (talk) 15:26, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

War hero = gangster?

Which gangster(s) fought on the side of the Allies in WWII? 130.105.213.232 (talk) 09:48, 12 November 2016 (UTC)