Talk:GPC (Mystery Science Theater 3000)

Gypsy in the theater

This is incredibly speculative and therefore may have no place on wikipedia, but should we include a note in the Behind the Scenes section about Gypsy's unknown role in the early KTMA era? After looking into the debate on when Servo's head changed (see Tom Servo discussions), there seems to be a great deal of evidence to suggest that Gypsy was more prominent in the three non-circulating episodes than Servo.

On the KTMA page at mst3ktemple.com there are two photos from the first MST3K article ever distributed in the press. The article was released in December of 1988, after only six or so episodes had aired. Both of the photos feature Gypsy rather than Servo. One is even a shot of a theater segment in which Gypsy replaces Servo in the theater. (Though this isn't likely a real screen capture, as it's a Gamera film on the screen and all Gamera films are extant.) It is strange that they'd choose to publicize the program with Gypsy rather than Servo.

On a minutiae page at mst3ktemple.com, it is noteworthy that only one picture of Servo outside of the theater exists prior to the extant episodes. (The clothespin photo which is difficult to place.) Gypsy, in contrast, appears very frequently. In fact, there is no concrete evidence of Servo having a prominent role in the show prior to the shot of him in the theater from episode K03. Meanwhile, Gypsy is all over the place.

Add to this the fact that Gypsy, rather than Servo, appears in the side-view "laughter shot" from the opening credits of the KTMA era. If this shot was filmed at the same time as episode K03, as seems likely based on the research at mst3ktemple.com, it is also strong evidence that Gypsy was more prominent in episodes K01 through K03.

If we also take into account the anonymous claim on the wiki that Servo only gained his bubblegum machine head in episode K02 (which, if true, might mean he was still only communicating in beeps, as in the pilot tape), then it is possible that Gypsy actually sat in the theater in parts of episode one or two.

Perhaps we should amend the section on her history to include her prominence in the early KTMA era, and speculation about her role in those first three episodes. Jwadeg 18:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this is far too speculative. The mst3ktemple info even for the well-researched passing comment about Servo's head may itself not survive critical review because, as I mention at Talk:Tom Servo#Gumball Machine Head, it likely doesn't meet Wikipedia standards of reliable sources. To extrapolate so much about Gypsy's theater involvement from all this is more likely to make the case that we should eliminate all these statements because of their tendency to encourage this kind of unverifiable speculation. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:56, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely. I don't think that speculating about her level of involvement in the missing episodes belongs here. I was really only suggesting that we know it to be factually true that Gypsy as a character was slowly relegated to the background in the KTMA era. (She appeared in at least one host segment in all of the first 18 episodes, and in none of the last three. And her number of appearances per episode does seem to decrease at a measurable rate.) So I was only really suggesting that it may be passable to include a mention of her greater involvement early in the show, her slow movement into the background during the KTMA era, and perhaps a mention that speculation about her role is possible.

I don't think that we should include specific speculation, as I did to start this discussion. But I do think that by not mentioning that her role in those episodes is unknown, we are implicitly saying that her role in those episodes was the same as later episodes. This claim, in light of what is presently known, is also factually untrue.

I'm not sure I agree that admitting to areas where speculation is possible should be a problem for wikipedia's standards. It is speculative statements themselves that are not valid; the admission of gaps in knowledge where speculation takes place, on the other hand, is very valid. To my mind it would be factually valid, for the purposes of an encyclpedic document, to mention the fact that the roles for Gypsy and Servo in the missing episodes are unclear, compared to Crow whose role is very clear. (He is present in all extant film segments and most host segments and press images.)

However, I will leave the final decision up to you, as you are definitely better versed in what passes inspection at this site than I. Jwadeg 20:33, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Gypsy's voice

Do we have a specific source for Gypsy being voiced in the KTMA season by Josh Weinstein? The credits show the following:

Puppet Operation and Voices

Josh Weinstein

Trace Beaulieu

Kevin Murphy

It's well-established that Josh did Servo and Trace did Crow, but I don't recall an official source about who did Gypsy, and who Kevin Murphy voiced. (There are arguments that Kevin did Cambot, but I still haven't seen a reliable source cited.) I'd like to confirm this information. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:22, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

On a page of the mst3kinfo.com faq (about two thirds of the way down) it lists all the major characters on the show and who played them and says: "Josh Weinstein played Dr. Laurence Erhardt and provided the voice and puppetry for Tom Servo in the KTMA episodes and during the first national season; he also supplied the voice and puppetry for Gypsy during the KTMA episodes." I'm pretty sure he's mentioned it in online interviews as well, but I think that's the most reliable source we have for that piece of info.

Jwadeg 18:33, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Sack of monkeys in my pocket

So, why is Gypsy called Gypsy? A reference to Gypsy Rose Lee, an obscure sci-fi reference (perhaps "Nomad", from one of the old Star Trek episodes), or something else? -Ashley Pomeroy 19:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

You mindless little dweeb. As any fule kno, Gypsy was named after Joel's brother's pet turtle. [1] And you call yourself a scientist. -Ashley Pomeroy 17:31, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Now, now, Ashley — please be civil to yourself. We wouldn't want you upsetting yourself, causing yourself to leave. ☺ By the way, I never could figure out what your question had to do with the "Idiot Control" song. ("Sack of monkeys in my pocket", indeed!) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:38, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Name Change Impact on Article

Since we now know the name change is final and official for the next planned season(accepting it whether you agree, disagree, or are neutral with the decision), I think there should be discussion of how and when to edit the article eventually to match beyond one off mentions of the change. I think the action items would be: 1) Rename the article 2) Replace references of 'Gypsy' to 'GPC' except where the name change is discussed. I personally think we should wait until the season starts or there are more official materials using the new name to take major action, since it is possible there will be guidance given either in-universe or otherwise as to how it should be done, and since the overwhelming published material on the puppet, specifically the puppet used in the TV shows, right now uses the old name, it would seem premature and more confusing to readers to change things based on pre-production planning even by the creator.

There is also the matter of what the new article name would be, whether it would just be 'GPC(Mystery Science Theater 3000)', or something mentioning the dual names. This would also seem to apply to the category link name which could be GPC(Gypsy).

I don't have strong opinions either way, but thought it was best to start this discussion soon since it will probably happen one way or another in the next few months. KitsuneLogic (talk) 11:10, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Just going to jump in with my two cents and say that I believe that per WP:COMMONNAME, this should go back to "Gypsy", since that is still the most commonly used name for the character by the general public and is the name used in the vast majority of media that feature the character. Just as Howard the Duck remains, despite Marvel giving him an "official" last name, changing the name on the show should not affect the article. Regardless, for accuracy, "Gypsy" should be reflected throughout the article for the periods where it was the official name. Rhindle The Red (talk) 19:09, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm glad someone understands that. Naturally, your suggestion will be ignored, because this is Wikipedia, a website hosted in clownworld where it is now offensive to call a gypsy a gypsy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:449:4581:6920:0:0:0:AA73 (talk) 05:06, 5 January 2024 (UTC)