Talk:Force play

First base photo

Great photo, but technically, a play on the batter at first base isn't a force play. Is there a photo anyone has/knows about of a force play at second base? --Locarno 13:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I think it technically IS a force play, although nobody calls it that, but I agree: good photo, terrible example. WHPratt (talk) 14:26, 25 February 2009 (UTC)WHPratt

It is not, by the definition in rules 2.00, a force play. A force play is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base by reason of the batter becoming a runner. Saros136 (talk) 05:46, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

History of the rule?

When was the force play rule introduced into baseball?

(Probably five minutes into the first game when a batter reached first and a runner who feared he couldn't get down to second came back there. One of them had to vacate the bag, and the batter couldn't very well go back home. So the other guy was "forced" to take off! ;) WHPratt (talk) 15:34, 26 February 2009 (UTC)WHPratt)

Nonsense. Before the force rule was added, in that situation neither runner at 1st base had to vacate the base. (The defense would of course be able to tag one of them out if both of them stay on the base, since another rule allows a runner to be tagged out when two runners are on the same base.) SEppley (talk) 02:46, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't the rules of baseball and softball be purer if the force play rule were turned off for the baserunners instead of automatically calling the batter out, in the following three situations:

  1. Infield Fly Rule situation
  2. Intentionally Dropped Fly Rule situation.
  3. Dropped third strike with runner at first base and fewer than 2 outs

Instead of calling "Batter is out!" the umpire would call "No force!" In these 3 situations, the baserunners would be forced to advance only if the batter reaches first base safely. This would give the batter a tactical choice: Case 1: The batter can refuse to reach first base, sacrificing him/herself in order to keep the other runners from being forced to advance. The defense can easily put him/her out by possessing the ball at first base, but will be unable to put out any other runner who is smart enough to stay on (or return to) his/her original base. Case 2: The batter can try to reach first base safely. This would be sensible if the runner at first base chooses to attempt to advance, which would be sensible if it appears the defense will not quickly gain control of the uncaught ball. In case 1, the result is the same as under the existing rules; the batter is out and the other runners may try to advance at risk of being put out too. In case 2, the defense might score no outs, which is purer than calling an automatic (possibly undeserved) out on the batter. --SEppley —Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.159.64.10 (talk) 03:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Forced out?

Two outs, runner on second or third either one. The batter his a ball through the infield into right field. The right fielder fields the ball and throws the runner out at first however the base runner scored prior to the out being recorded. Does the run count? Is that considered a forced out at first? Can someone provide me with the specific rule on whether or not that is considered a forced out. I have heard two different answers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.169.97.50 (talk) 21:56, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm just an occasional amateur player and by no means an expert on the laws of the game, but I think the run would not count by virtue of rule 4.09(a)(1) of the official MLB rules. SchnitteUK (talk) 09:40, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Correct, the run does not count if the third out is the batter (or any forced runner) failing to advance safely to the next base. Note that it's not actually necessary for the defense to make a play. For example, suppose it's the bottom of the ninth inning, tie score, two out, runner at third base. The batter hits the ball fairly over the outfield fence, thinks the runner from third base scored the winning run and thinks the game is over. Before reaching first base, the batter goes back to home plate to congratulate the "winning" runner, and then they walk off into the dugout. In this case, the batter is called out for abandoning the base paths and the run does not count, even though the defense made no play. Or, suppose the batter has a heart attack before reaching first base; same result: no run scored. SEppley (talk) 03:37, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

But here's a play where the run DOES count: One out, runners at second & third. Batter hits a fly ball caught by an outfielder (for the second out of the inning). The runner at third tags up and scores after the catch, but the runner at second advanced before the catch and was put out (for the third out) before he could get back to the base, by the outfielder throwing the ball to an infielder standing on second base. Many people who don't know the rules well call this a force out because, similar to a true force out, it's unnecessary to tag the runner. It's the third out, but it's technically not a force out, so the run counts (assuming the runner from third reached home before the defense possessed the ball on second). Read the definition in the rules... force outs are only on runners who are forced to advance by the batter putting the ball in play (including the batter-runner, who is forced to advance to first base). Force is always an abbreviation for "forced to advance." SEppley (talk) 03:37, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

There was a case a few years back in the majors where there was a double play which included a sacrifice fly. There was 1 out, and runners on 1st & 3rd, when the batter flied out for 2nd out. Runner on 3rd tagged up and scored. Then, the runner from 1st was seen running from 2nd to 3rd; it turns out he thought there were 2 out when the ball was hit (there was only 1 out then), and the defense got the ball back over to 1st base to EASILY put that runner out for the 3rd out. The run from the sacrifice fly had already crossed the plate, and it counted. Three out, nobody left on base.

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Two questions!

1. No run can be scored during the same continuous playing action as a force out for the third out, even if a runner reaches home plate before the third out is recorded. Why is that so? There's a reasoning behing the Infield Fly rule and the details of the Uncaught Third Strike rule, but what's the purpose of this "no run in a force third out play" rule?
2. For example, suppose there are runners on first and third with one out. The batter hits a ground ball to the second baseman. The second baseman, seeing the bumper-carred runner on first heading his way, retrieves the ball and steps on second to get him out on the force out for the second out of the inning. If the runner on third had meanwhile run home and touched home plate, his run would count. What if the second baseman throws to first base in the same play and the batter-runner is out on force play as well? Would the run from the baserunner on third still count? As far as I understand the rule it doesn't matter how many outs were recorded at the time-of-pitch, or does it?--31.16.64.47 (talk) 01:53, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

In the event of an active double play, the run would not count, as they're both forced out. It's because they're forced to run, the runner attempting to score is no longer in a forced situation after rounding third. so they are running by choice, the initial play of the ball being hit is still active either until the two forced runners reach base or are put out. The run doesn't count because it is as if there were already 3 outs because one of the forced runners must be safe. However, if the batter reaches firstbase, 2nd runner is out and the third scores and then the first steps off his base and is tagged, then the run counts. Persistent Corvid (talk) 03:17, 13 May 2018 (UTC)