Talk:First Church in Albany (Reformed)

name of article

There was a request at wt:capdis that this article should be named "First Church in Albany" as someone, I think Camelbinky, preferred it "to any alternative names for the Dutch Reformed Church to keep in line with the naming preference of other First Church's in other cities". That was okay to suggest, but I think the main concern should be to use the common name for the place, not be too concerned about using a name that would be more similar to other usage elsewhere.

I started this article, anyhow, as "First Reformed Church (Albany, New York)", using the NRHP program name for the site plus disambiguating (City, State). I think "First Reformed Church" is what shows for this in the HABS link for the site, too. Naming-convention wise, i think it is proper to use the most common name for a place, which might or might not be the NRHP name. Often articles I started at an NRHP name get moved, later, to a different common name. But, I don't see the evidence yet that a different common name is more appropriate. (If it makes sense to change to a different common name, though, the NRHP infobox should be kept showing its NRHP official program name.) doncram (talk) 03:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

I concur with your decision. What about possibly a redirect to here from First Church in Albany? I'll see if the church itself has a preference on its website, though if someone happens to go to that church or drive by it and see's a different name on the church or a sign outside it I'd love to hear from them.Camelbinky (talk) 04:32, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Update- http://www.firstchurchinalbany.org/ From their website it appears First Church in Albany is the official name. Personally I'm fine with leaving the article title the way it is, but probably should mention the name in the article opening paragraph, so it can match up with the sources I'm using for the history section.Camelbinky (talk) 04:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the NRHP application document gives as primary name for the site "First Church in Albany (Reformed)". So it seems to me that the NRIS data entry as "First Reformed Church" was misguided, if not an outright error. There are many decisions taken in the NRIS database entries that are questionable, see wp:NRIS info issues for tracking about many of them. With this additional source that "First Church in Albany" was a historic name, in addition to it being the current official name, I would support moving the article to the "First Church in Albany" article title. Currently that is a redirect to here. doncram (talk) 20:45, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree if you want to change it to First Church in Albany (Reformed) as the name of the article with all other names redirecting to this.Camelbinky (talk) 22:38, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and changed the title.Camelbinky (talk) 05:32, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

lede paragraph confusion about Tiffany's etc

Currently the first paragraph is: "First Reformed Church in Albany, New York, also known as North Dutch Church, was designed by Philip Hooker with windows by Tiffany and Co., and was built in 1798. It was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1974.[1]" with the footnote to NRIS. However, NRIS supports the 1798 built date and the NRHP listing date, but not other stuff in the intro. The Tiffany claim seems implausible to me, and clicking on the Tiffany link, you discover that Tiffany was founded in 1837 or some date like that. So, it seems odd to state that it was designed by Hooker with Tiffany windows and built in 1798.

The wp:lede paragraph does not require excessive footnoting, if facts are further developed with proper footnoting later. Here, the Tiffany claims need support later, and the use of the NRIS footnote seems misleading, as if it applies to all info in the first paragraph. I'll try adding a link to the NRHP application for the site, next, but further attention to these issues would be appreciated. doncram (talk) 19:52, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

The church website said they had windows done by Tiffany & Co. so I assumed the windows were original. I think we should remove the mention of Tiffany until we can figure out when the windows were installed.Camelbinky (talk) 15:53, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

According to the church website- "The building was designed by architect Philip Hooker, and the windows by Tiffany" and "On display in our lobby is the Sarah Faye Sumner Memorial Window, a work by Louis Comfort Tiffany. It was a gift to the congregation by Miss Emily D. Sumner, in memory of her sister" I dont know how much that helps.Camelbinky (talk) 16:13, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Oldest church in Upstate NY?

This claim is false for the Church was built in 1798, and there is a church in Schenectady Stockade built in 1759. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.149.50.172 (talk) 13:55, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Will look into this, but probably what was meant is that it is the oldest congregation, which it certainly does predate any and all settlement of any kind in Schenectady. Thank you for that insight and help, hope you continue to contribute and make Wikipedia better.Camelbinky (talk) 00:47, 28 March 2010 (UTC)