Talk:Fūma no Kojirō

Title

Resolved

 – Let's stop beating a dead horse.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:28, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Can someone please change the title to Fūma no Kojirō? That's the correct way of spelling the title. Oh, and Fuuma no Kojirou should also redirect here.--Egocentrism04 18:58, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. It has been argued that this is not the official romanization used by the live action production company. The only evidence of "Fuuma no Kojirou" being used is for the website URL. I can find nothing else showing any romanization. Therefore, WP:MOS-JA has been applied and the article is now at Fūma no Kojirō. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 05:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The official romanization is that by the live action series' production company, and this is the only romanization that exists by any Japanese company. I've moved this page back, and I would like it if there was a better reasoning directed towards me if there is a reason to have it at the Hepburn romanization.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 22:51, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

We don't use "Japanese companies" romanization, because they most likely don't use macrons, because that's a "direct" transliteration. We use the "most popular title" which is most likely "Fuuma no Kojirou", but I still think it should be "Fūma no Kojirō". Moocowsrule (talk) 02:57, 24 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

The Japanese production companies are the ones who decide what to name their shows in Japanese and English (to an extent). The Japanese production company for the drama chose "Fuuma no Kojirou" and not "Fuma no Kojiro" or "Fūma no Kojirō" for a reason.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:50, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

But they transliterate it literally. And not encycopædically (not a word)... But anyways we should use the most known title. I'm sure most translators who speak native Japanese don't have the BEST English... It should be "Fūma no Kojirō". Moocowsrule (talk) 21:24, 25 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

It's an official transliteration, regardless of it not being a word in English. The production company chose "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" and not the pairs "Fuuma" and "Kojiro;" "Fuma" and "Kojiro;" or "Fuma" and "Kojirou." Unless there's another transliteration that's been used, then this one should stay put.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 22:20, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

YOU STILL DON'T GET IT!!! WE DON'T USE THE JAPANESE TITLE!!! WE USE THE ENGLISH TITLE!!! And if there isn't an English title we use the most popular title. WP:MJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read it.

And when I said "(not a word)", I was talking about "encycopædically". Moocowsrule (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

And also "Fuma no Kojiro" is more popular than "Fuuma no Kojirou". Use google to look it up if you're skeptical. Moocowsrule (talk) 18:35, 26 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

There is no English title, which is why we use the closest name we can, until we find an official spelling in the English alphabet, which is what has happened here. It doesn't matter if "Fuma no Kojiro" is more popular than "Fuuma no Kojirou." It's that the production company for the drama chose "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" to be the English spellings when writing up the website. There are several instances where the "more popular name" as you put it is not used on Wikipedia in favor of the official name given by the production company or the Hepburn romanization name to match WP:MOS-JA. In this situation, we have the official name given by the production company, and that is what should always be used.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 22:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Unless I interpreted this wrong, It should be "Fūma no Kojirō". "Japanese terms should be romanized according to most common usage in English, including unconventional romanization of titles and names by licensees (e.g., Devil Hunter Yohko and Tenjho Tenge—see below), and words used frequently in English (such as sumo or judo)." Meaning we use the most common usage in English, so we should therefore use "Fūma no Kojirō". Also it says this "1. Article titles should use macrons as specified for body text except in cases where the macronless spelling is in common usage in English-speaking countries (e.g., Tokyo, Sumo and Shinto, instead of Tōkyō, Sumō and Shintō).", last time I checked, Japan isn't an English speaking country. If you still disagree with me, we should put a comment on the talk page... but I think I might be wrong... T~T Moocowsrule (talk) 22:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

Japanese companies are still licensees. And we have a Japanese company that's used "Fuuma" and "Kojirou." What is so hard to understand about that? This romanization is official within Japan. Who cares if it's an English transliteration within Japan? An official name is an official name.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 22:47, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Just because the Japanese companies are still licensees it doesn't mean that that should be the official English title. Even if the Japanese company uses "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" doesn't mean Wikipedia should. What's so hard to understand about that? Moocowsrule (talk) 03:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)moocowsule

That has nothing to do with Hepburn romanization. Any types of romanization deal with the ways characters are read. Moocowsrule (talk) 03:17, 10 November 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

Plus three users (myself, 日本穣, and Egocentrism04), against one user (yourself), and one neurtal/unknown (十八). Just give it up, the title used on Wikipedia should be Fūma no Kojirō. Moocowsrule (talk) 03:22, 10 November 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

I don't actually care one way or the other, so I'd be more neutral than anything else. I still hold that there isn't any "official" English romanization, and that the URL is not a reliable indication of an official English romanization. Be that as it may, since there are redirects in place, it doesn't really matter. So, just drop it, Moo. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 04:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm just going to forget this page exists and drop all of it. Moocowsrule (talk) 06:25, 10 November 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

The most commonly used name is always the one without the accent. — J U M P G U R U ^{■ask㋐㋜㋗■} 18:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

You mean macron? わwaらraうu Smile! 03:55, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Wait is this about the entire series, or is it about just the drama? If it's about the entire series then it should be "Fūma no Kojirō" rather than "Fuuma no Kojirou"... わwaらraうu Smile! 07:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Sweet baby Jesus. If the drama uses a specific Romanization, then it should cover the whole series. I have never seen something Japanese that uses a different Romanization between a manga, an anime, and a drama. Kikaider is always "Kikaider" in Japan, be it the manga, the recent animated series, or the 70s children's show (except in Hawaii where they call him "Kikaida"). Stop bringing this up constantly, Moocowsrule.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 07:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

There's only one website URL that says "Fuuma no Kojirou", they can't put macrons in the URL. Where else do they use it? forums? If yes, then it should be changed emediatly, people just type it that way because its more convenient. As Wikipedians, we're supposed to teach people stuff, not inforce what they already know. That's pointless. – J U M P G U R U ^{■ask㋐㋜㋗■} 02:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

If it is clearly the only use of the name in English, we should utilize it. I've tried to find if Toei has listed how they want the name of the show listed in English, but I've not. The best we have is the syndicated drama's name that does not call it "Fuma no Kojiro" or any variation that may make the use of macrons possible.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 02:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

But that's a flippin' URL! You can't put macrons in URLs! They had to choose between putting "fuuma-kojirou" of "fuma-kojiro". It is a complete matter of choise! They barely had any choise, and decided to use one of the two. That doesn't mean that was the official English title. – J U M P G U R U ^{■ask㋐㋜㋗■} 04:18, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

But they don't use "Fuma no Kojiro" or any variation of that. And "Fuuma no Kojirou" is the only romanization we have, and that is what this article is using. It's been over a year since this discussion began. Unless you can find something that doesn't call it "Fuuma no Kojirou" in English, then stop bringing this up, please.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 04:24, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

May I ask how this was resolved? Your last comment was from 2009, that's not over a year. That's current. – J U M P G U R U ^{■ask㋐㋜㋗■} 05:13, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

This was started in 2007, answered in 2008, and then brought up by you, again, in 2009. Nothing else is going to come out of this. "Fuuma no Kojirou" is an official spelling and it's the only one that there is in the English alphabet, regardless of the fact that it comes from a URL. It's the URL they chose, and they could have chosen other ones. I've seen the use of macrons (although not in URLs). I've seen the use of other ways to indicate long vowels. Whoever bought the rights for this manga to turn into a drama chose it for a reason. And there cannot be possibly anything else that you can say that would go against Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Names of companies, products, and organizations. As far as I'm concerned, this is an official name just like the two examples listed there, and it is clearly determined by the URL name.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 06:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd say there's a difference between Kōdansha constantly spelling the company name as "Kodansha", and a romanization found in one URL... I don't think the latter really warrants an exception to the good old revised Hepburn romanization.

(an exception that also gives us stuff like "In 2003, Masami Kurumada authored an additional short story titled Fuuma no Kojirou: Ryūsei Ansatsuchō.")

Also: [1] (offline, but cached by Google) Erigu (talk) 11:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

That is the only other instance of the series referred to as "Fuma" I've seen. Still, "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" are the only romanizations that have been found other than using Hepburn. And that's one of Toho's pages. The show's rights are owned by Toei from all I can find.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 11:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

that's one of Toho's pages. The show's rights are owned by Toei from all I can find.

Well, clearly not... The DVDs are being released by Tōhō, as you can see. Erigu (talk) 11:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I have never seen something Japanese that uses a different Romanization between a manga, an anime, and a drama.

Lucky you. I offer you Neo-Human Casshern: romanized as "Casshan" for the OVA, and years later as "Casshern" for the live-action movie. Erigu (talk) 11:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

But yet "Casshern" is what is universally used for the subject. And that is different from the use of "Fuuma no Kojirou" and "Fūma no Kojirō" or "Fuma no Kojiro" (the latter of which I am finding has more google hits). Still, "Fuuma no Kojirou" is the closest there is for the English speaking world for an official transliteration, because as far as I know there is no official English language release of the series.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 11:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

But yet "Casshern" is what is universally used for the subject

Well, that's the one they've been using lately. But before the live-action movie...

Still, "Fuuma no Kojirou" is the closest there is for the English speaking world for an official transliteration

So we're ignoring the "Fuma" I found above? Erigu (talk) 11:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Would you stop quoting and taking apart every single post I make? And "Casshern" has always been the chosen transliteration, and other than that one instance of "Fuma", there's nothing else that's from a Japanese company.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 13:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

"Casshern" has always been the chosen transliteration

Not always. That was my point, even.

And you're downplaying the "Fuma" because it's just "one instance"? Couldn't the exact same thing be said about the other URL? Erigu (talk) 13:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Stop quoting my statements. And the other URL is the only one that is still there. And the current version of your URL notifies readers to go to Fuuma-Kojirou.com.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 13:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, clearly that means it should be "Fuuma" and "Fuma" was a mistake. Clearly. Survival of the fittest and all that.

I found those: "KOJIRO" and "FUMA NO KOJIROU"[2]. 'Doesn't look like they're particularly adamant about the way long "u" or "o" sounds should be romanized. But hey, those are VHS. Pretty much an extinct format. So that doesn't count. Erigu (talk) 14:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Since we've established that there are several different official romanizations for the title of this series, I see no reason to stick with "Fuuma no Kojirou" specifically instead of simply using the revised Hepburn "Fūma no Kojirō". I'm moving the article. Erigu (talk) 09:06, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

tvnihon.com/tracker... the guys who did the subbing for the show list it as "Fuuma no Kojirou" Obviously they're fluent enough with English to ad subs to hundreds of series but we sit here and argue about whether or not we should put some lines above letters instead of taking the direct translation from the guys who sub it for us? My other argument is also that, I personally and plenty of others, don't know how to google search for things with weird symbols above the letter, such as "ū" and "ō" (copy and paste from above). So why not make it easy for everyone and use letters that are actually on the keyboard? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philsberry (talk • contribs) 20:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)