Talk:Evan Neumann

'political refugee'

How is the guy a political refugee? Do any of the sources used actually call him that? Other than what he describes himself as of course. Seems to not be very NPOV in the lede. Surely given due weight in sources it would be more reasonable to say he is evading criminal prosecution, fleeing the country due to it. Nothing political about that, other than in his own mind. Nothing in the main body of the article even supports the claim or is even mentioned for that matter. Only that he describes himself as such in some propaganda piece on state televsion. And surely that cannot be enough to call him a 'political refugee' in the lede, in wiki-voice no less. Call him what he is, an alleged criminal fleeing the country. Anyone got any input on the matter? 85.16.46.208 (talk) 23:05, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

I wrote it, I struggled with trying to find the neutral term, noting he's not convinced. I think it's neutral to call him a refugee, you may have a fair point about political refugee, I'm open to people making improvements and recognize the possible deficiency here. CT55555 (talk) 23:10, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes of course, due to BLP i did say alleged criminal/fleeing prosecution. And quite honestly, i am not sure what would be a good descriptor either. I just think 'polical refugee' in the lede, used totally uncritically and in wiki-voice seems wrong. Especially given the only time you mentioned it in the body was as a quote by himself. And i doubt The Guardian, The NYT or NPR would call him a 'political refugee' either. What do the sources you used call him? Otherwise, how about 'alleged criminal and self described political refugee' or something along those lines? Would that be BLP compliant, be NPOV and give due weight to the sources? And even in that case i am not sure how much he actually is described as a 'political refugee' in sources to warrant that in the lede. Perhaps as a type of compromise or whatever. And sorry if i came across as a little harsh. 85.16.46.208 (talk) 23:55, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

BBC (cited) calls him a "riot suspect" and then mentions he sought asylum. NPR elsewhere also calls him a riot suspect. Reuters calls him a "California man charged with assaulting police" and quote him saying he is seeking political asylum. I guess they are all struggling with it too. Before he got asylum "asylum seeker" would be the normal neutral thing, I think. But when you get asylum, you become a political refugee, I think. Should the article just say he is a "man who claims to have sought political asylum"? it sounds weird... Maybe "Evan Neumann is Brest-based American man who fled US in following his inditement for alleged activities.... CT55555 (talk) 00:41, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

How about combining the two bits. Perhaps "Evan Neumann is an American who fled the US following his indictment for alleged activities during the 2021 United States Capitol attack and claims to have sought political asylum in Belarus" or "Evan Neumann is an American who claims to have sought political asylum in Belarus after he fled the US following his indictment for alleged activities during the 2021 United States Capitol attack"? Probably not the most elegant way to phrase it, but it would cover the angles in a pretty neutral way. Or just something along those lines anyway. Feel free to wordsmith that any way you like, obviously. If it even is slightly palatable to you to begin with that is. First version puts the more important bit, in my opinion anyway, first. But i feel like the second reads slightly better.85.16.39.58 (talk) 01:45, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

I've edited it as per your first suggestion. Thanks for the collaboration. This is an improvement. CT55555 (talk) 01:50, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you as well for taking on my complaint and engaging in the way you did. It is not that common to actually get treated like a human being on here for someone like me. And you were... just nice. Have a good one anyway. 85.16.39.58 (talk) 13:06, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Let us hope that the values of collaboration and kindness become a bit more common on this website. All the best. CT55555 (talk) 13:10, 30 March 2022 (UTC)