Talk:Eckhart Tolle

Dissociation/depersonalization

I've just bought Tolle's "The Power of Now", with his famous 'enlightenment-narrative'. Yet, it strikes me that his explanationwas formulated years after this experience, after he had started reading 'spiritual texts'. What he describes in his writings is similar to Samkhya: dissociating purusha, the witness-cosnciousness, from the rest of the activities of the mind. It seems to me that his explanation is an ad hoc explanation, a rationalization, missing the obvious point that such "enlightenment experiences" are more similar to the general category of "religious experience," and not to the Indian notion of 'awakening', 'being awake', which involves long training and gradual development. It sounds more like dissociation/depersonalization, and a Google-seacrh elaborates this impression:

• PsychCentral, Is Depersonalization Disorder a Form of Enlightenment?
• DPSelfHelp, Does Eckhart Tolle have some form of DP?. This page does have an interesting observation, though:

Eckhart Tolle describes his "DP/DR" experience in a recent interview regarding his own experience and journey. He didn't label it as "DP/DR" and instead chose to call it 'existential angst' or a 'dark night of the soul', in which the world and his own existence appeared 'foreign, unreal and without meaning', coupled with overwhelming anxiety to the point of panic and breathlessness. He even correlates his experience to Satre's "Nausia".

He has also stated elsewhere that the event that occured three years prior to 'the big event', when he followed a lady who was talking to herself into a university building and freaked-out when this catalyzed him into realizing his own constant 'mind-chatter' as being the first instant of being 'sucked into the void'. Tolle spent three years in constant anxiety and "DP/DR" and when the void opened up again, threatening to pull him into perceived annihilation, instead of resisting it through panic, he allowed himself to fall into it and made it to the 'otherside'.

From the perspective of Tolle's teaching, and many true spiritual teachings, particularly from other cultures, people with DP/DR are 'stuck' in the transition between death and rebirth. From Tolle's perspective, people with "DP/DR" are only a step away from enlightenment/self-realization. Consciousness has already withdrawn from form and is hanging onto the old by a thread.

The above would mean that the Purusha-prakriti distinction is not just a 'mental trick', but the description of an actual experience, as experienced by yogis. In Buddhism, fear of 'nothingness' is recognized, though hardly mentioned; some state that the Buddhanature-concept was introduced to help aspirants through this fear. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 09:36, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Awakening and Enlightened are significantly different. Awakening is more often the preamble state when an individual becomes first aware of the existence of witness consciousness from ego consciousness and begin to explore and narrate the world from the POV of witness consciousness. However the ability to remain established in witness consciousness at will without unconsciously switching back to ego consciousness is often termed as 'enlightened' in broad terms across buddhism and vedanta.

Personal experience of an individual who claims to be awakened cannot be verified by a third person. Outside critics/skeptics often look for behavioral pattern of such individual to see if such individual are committing actions that are self serving. In case of the author, there are several evidences that comport to be self serving as it entails financial reward to the author. This article IMO is lacking a neutral WP:BLPSPS perspective. Cigarlover (talk) 23:09, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

His lifestyle

It's often suggested that he just combined existing teachings to become popular and wealthy, rather than just referring to other teachings as they relate to his awakening and higher consciousness. Someone should point out his lifestyle. He doesn't live a luxurious high life with his $90 mil (and he's now 75 years old). He clearly has no interest in egotistic use of money, (not even fancy clothes, etc). His plans for the use of his wealth are centered on spreading the benefits of higher consciousness via a nonprofit. His detractors don't seem to have watched his talks and listened to his uniquely lighthearted way of illuminating truths. Cldupont (talk) 12:27, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Please see, WP:FORUM, WP:OR, WP:RS, Help:Citing sources, WP:SPS, WP:NPOV, and WP:DUE. Not sure what you are asking here. —DIYeditor (talk) 01:02, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

COI request

I work for Eckhart Tolle and there are a few edits we would like to make to this Wikipedia page. Some of the edits are to correct factual inaccuracies, some are to update numbers/data, and some are to add more information. I realize we have a conflict of interest, and would like to know the best way to submit edits. Also wondering about citing certain information when it is coming directly from Mr. Tolle. Any help/advice is appreciated. SheilaLSharma (talk) 21:38, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done No edit has been requested. Please see instructions at Template:Edit COI/Instructions. Note also that it is usually best to make no more than 1 to 4 requested edits/changes at a time. Softlavender (talk) 03:45, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

COI Edit Request - mention another book in lede

As mentioned in my topic above, I have a COI as I work for Eckhart Tolle, but I will start by requesting 1 edit, just to make sure I am submitting correctly:

Edit Request #1: Please add Stillness Speaks (2003)

Current:

His books include The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment (1997), A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose (2005) and the picture book Guardians of Being (2009).

Proposed Edit:

His books include The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment (1997), A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose (2005), Stillness Speaks (2003), and the picture book Guardians of Being (2009). SheilaLSharma (talk) 19:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Done, but in chronological order. Done because the book is already mentioned and cited in the body text, and therefore this edit request did not need a citation, but most edit requests require a citation to be provided.

  SheilaLSharma. please make sure your template appears properly when you post it. It should open up into an actually image with text in it. If your template is not posted properly, no editors who normally respond to these requests are ever going to see it. I just happened to see it because this article is on my watchlist and I happened to log on to Wikipedia today and checked my watchlist. Softlavender (talk) 05:40, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

I've reverted the edit. Please indicate why it deserves such high prominence in the article. --Hipal (talk) 19:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

COI Edit Request - alma mater to infobox

• What I think should be changed: Could we please add Eckhart's Alma Mater to the infobox on the right?

Alma Mater King's College (University of London); Gonville and Caius (University of Cambridge)

• Why it should be changed: It is already cited (7) that he attended these Universities, but it would be great to add these specifics to the infobox as well for quick reference.
• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button):

SheilaLSharma (talk) 17:34, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

I'm unclear what reference you're referring to. #7 is Walker 2008, which doesn't appear to verify the information. A quote would help if I'm overlooking something. --Hipal (talk) 19:37, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Although there are many inaccuracies in the Walker 2008 article used as #7 citation, it does include this quote: "Despite all this, he went to the University of London and is acknowledged by Cambridge University to have matriculated as a postgraduate student there in 1977..." However, I will provide further citation in my reply to Softlavender below if that is more helpful... SheilaLSharma (talk) 22:00, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Comment: Cambridge would not be an alma mater; there's no indication that he received a degree from it or did anything more than enroll as a postgraduate student there in 1977, but very soon afterwards (1977 or early 1978) he became depressed, had a spiritual experience, and stopped studying for his doctorate. University of London can be added to the infobox (but not King's College London unless there is a citation for that); that would be a standard edit. Softlavender (talk) 19:57, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately the (#7) cited article is incorrect on the timeline of events. I can provide a different citation if it is better with this article: https://www.good.is/features/the-power-of-then This article includes the following: “...Tolle enrolled in King’s College London...and in 1977 he graduated with honors...But with no plan post-graduation, he became increasingly depressed and anxious. That spring, something changed...He lay in bed one spring night, his head a whirlwind of sadness and despair. “I can’t live with myself anymore,” he recounted. And as he thought that, he says, he had another thought: “Who is myself? And who am I?”...Still, Tolle applied and got into Cambridge to work on a doctorate in Latin American literature...After four years, he decided it wasn’t for him. He left abruptly and moved to London..." If the definition of Alma Mater is a school, college, or university which one has attended or from which one has graduated, is Cambridge not considered an Alma Mater in Eckhart's case? SheilaLSharma (talk) 22:18, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

My concern is that that 2013 Good.is article could be revisionist history. The Independent, which is a much more reliable source, checked with Cambridge in 2008 and reported that "[Tolle] is acknowledged by Cambridge University to have matriculated as a postgraduate student there in 1977" [1]. The problem with Tolle is that his education and its timeline is murky and the story seems to keep changing. Why did he not post all of this educational information in 1997 or 2005? My sense is that it's because it may not be fully accurate. Softlavender (talk) 22:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

The article was written in 2013 but based on a 2008 interview "Five years ago, I sat across from Eckhart Tolle...He said he didn’t like talking to press...But, Tolle told me...the universe had told him to grant me this interview...", however I understand your point. I will keep looking for a more solid citation. In the meantime, are you able to add the University of London as an Alma Mater in the infobox? Or do you need me to submit a separate edit request for it on its own? SheilaLSharma (talk) 22:57, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Template:infobox person says "It is usually not relevant to include either parameter for non-graduates", so I do not believe Cambridge should be in the infobox at all. I will however add the University of London. Softlavender (talk) 23:30, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks! SheilaLSharma (talk) 23:32, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

•  Partly done The university Tolle graduated from has been added to the infobox. Per the infobox guidelines, the university he did not graduate from has not been added to the infobox. Softlavender (talk) 15:22, 6 January 2024 (UTC)