Talk:East German uprising of 1953

The poem below was inspired by this event. I have no idea how it might be skillfully introduced or referenced in this wikipedia article:

The solution

After the Uprising on June 17th / The Secretary of the Authors' Union / Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee / Which said that the people / Had forfeited the government's confidence / And could only win it back / By redoubled labour. Wouldn't it / Be simpler in that case if the government / Dissolved the people and / Elected another?

Bertholt Brecht

That's a very interesting poem, but I don't think it can be suitably incorporated into the article text. The best solution would be to add an external link to where the poem could be accessed. --Sophitus 17:53, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Belligerents flags

I'm not convinced the Belligerents flags section in the table should display the Federal flag, while the demonstrators were also from the DDR. Even if a flag should be displayed. Racletteman

Supposed RIAS instructions

From the current version:

Radio in the American Sector directed many of the demonstrations, deciding when and where they would be held, and broadcasting instructions in German.

That statement is POV of the then East German government. It attempts to portray the uprising as staged by western forces. I'm not aware of an independent source that confirms the RIAS "instructions" about where and when to hold demonstrations.

Meanwhile western sources do confirm that RIAS played a role in the uprising akin to a catalyst, by the sheer fact that it reported about the uprising in Berlin and thus helped spark the uprising in other parts of East Germany which had remained quiet until then. But that role was rather involuntary and did not involve instructions, but merely reports. Anorak2 06:48, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

massacre/number of people killed

there are currently two statements in the article that seem a bit troubling: one is the vague statement about a massacre (where is it supposed to have happened? Berlin has a number of squares, but most of these have a proper name), the other one abou 401 people killed, including many tourists and journalists (why did I never hear about this)? The Bundeszentrale fuer politische Bildung has a site dedicated to the events, maybe it would be possible to gather some info there?

Generally, I think the article focuses too much on Berlin. Much of the action happened there, but there were numerous (and also often violent) demonstrations in other cities. Yaan (talk) 14:47, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I think I found the sources - but there is still much to do, like: Who got violent first, VP/Soviets or the demonstrators? When was the decision to quell protests made, and by whom?

The numbers of people killed are obviously too high. Recent German research (see footnote 6) has shown that only 55 victims can be accounted for. The rest is speculation and/or exaggeration. Some of it deriving from a source that has proven to be incorrect. Therefore, especially the number in the overwiew box at the top should be changed. The passage in the article itself could remain the way it is since it mentions the contradicting numbers. But having a significantly higher number of victims in the overwiew.... To me that reeks of Cold War propaganda and does not fulfill the quality standards Wikipedia is aiming for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.113.171.44 (talk) 08:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

June 17

Can someone please remove the NPOV wording in June 17 (and, to a lesser extent, the rest of the article)? Thanks. 68.121.24.4 (talk) 23:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

No, we want to keep WP:NPOV. -- Matthead  Discuß   00:35, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

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The Western Allies

Why isn't the shady position of the Western Allies towards the uprising mentioned? They refused to transport the mayor of Western Berlin, Ernst Reuter, in an allied planr from Vienna, where he attended a conference, so he could have been in (Western)Berlin without having to drive for a long time through the Federal Republic of Germany to reach a transit way, which was the only possibility to get there without allied help?

What about the position of Mr. Churchhill? He claimed this to be some sort of a "trick" from either the Soviet Union or the GDR! --Ragoro (talk) 15:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I'ld like to see this section expanded if possible. My father served in the Army Security Agency and monitored (personally) this radio traffic on the East/West border. He received a special commendation for his efforts in code tracking during this event. His unit was instructed to "bug out" by the pentagon...burning records, donning civilian clothes and issued 44 handguns. The allied military response was to place a show of force on the border, possibly in fear of the soviets taking west berlin. Military records were detroyed in a fire unfortunately...and this is the first written record I've found that describes what happened. Previously all I had were my father's recollections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Farberblah22 (talk • contribs) 00:42, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

National Holiday

At the current the article says "In remembrance of it, June 17 used to be the national holiday of West Germany until reunification", the wording of which doesn't seem correct to me. This day was not a national holiday (Feiertag, litterally: festive day), but intentionelly called a national memorial day (Gedenktag). The interpretation of June 17, 1953 was not how nice a day this was where East Germans have proven that they don't like the communist system, but a memorial day as Germans should be reminded that East Germans do not live in freedom and are hindered by force to vote for the political system/parties they want. Moreover (according to my knowledge), this day was not a day of closed business in Western Germany ("bank holiday"), but has always been a regular labour day. --Payton M. (talk) 14:20, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

no it was a real holiday (see German Unity Day, see www.17juli1953.de - Law paragraph establishing July 3rd, 1953, as the "Day of German Unity" in West Germany. )14:02, 5 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.56.181.144 (talk)

<minor edit> made ref an inline. WillemienH (talk) 10:23, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

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wondering this was before the Berlin wall and the closing of the Inner German border

I was wondering, given that this was all before the Berlin wall (built 1961) and the closing of the Inner German border (1952?) Why did not many people just seek refuge in West Berlin/ West Germany?WillemienH (talk) 22:07, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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• 08 Workers Revolt in Berlin - Flickr - The Central Intelligence Agency.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:51, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

40% of the wealthier farmers in the GDR fled to the West?

About the sentence:

"Meanwhile, food prices rose as a result of both the effects of the state's collectivisation policy – 40% of the wealthier farmers in the GDR fled to the West, leaving over 750,000 hectares of otherwise productive land lying fallow – and a poor harvest in 1952."

Without a specification of this class of "wealthier farmers", the 40% does not say a lot.

The reference (Kopstein) does not clarify this number, but refers to another source: Stiftung Archiv Massen- und Parteiorganisationen, Bundesarchiv (SAMPO-BA), SED IV 2/602/85. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siuhtlev ahsim (talk • contribs) 00:09, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

"Nazi Elements"

An IP added the sentences: "There were Nazi elements involved in the protests, though seldom as ringleaders. Walls, bridges and school blackboards were defaced with Nazi slogans and swastikas, and in some places, Nazi songs were sung at demonstrations. The great significant majority of Germans still clung to ideas of Nazism" I contradict this amendment. It is poorly sourced and according to all historian not a significant element of the uprising. Nillurcheier (talk) 10:50, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: European Studies

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 January 2024 and 12 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Theadmiral123 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Waub (talk) 23:46, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Citing the US State Department - NPOV

The post linked to citation 7, claims to provide information into the deteriorating living conditions in the DDR. However the source for this is the US State Department's now retired "Milestones in the History of U.S. Foreign Relations" publication, which as the geopolitical rival of the DDR, can hardly be described as a reliable source.

Specifically, the post from US State Department's discontinued website does not provide any figures or statistics to support its claims. It is not clear what information this conclusion of deteriorating living conditions was being drawn from. Considering that this is a more or less a government blog rather than an academic publication (not even a state-run academic publication), I think a better source is needed to substantiate this rather important claim.

One would think that a cause for the uprising (even as one among many) is profoundly important. Causes for protests and uprisings are vitally important for understanding its political direction, its demands, and the nature of the resulting government response. Ashkinazipapi (talk) 20:51, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

If you read the details both before and after that cited sentence, the article goes into considerable detail about the causes of the deteriorating living conditions. If you only read that sentence in isolation, it's non-sequitur. In context, it's valid and NPOV. cheers. anastrophe, an editor he is. 21:19, 20 August 2024 (UTC)