Talk:Dodgeball

This article is inaccurate. It describes the game known as slaughterball.

This article is about slaughterball, not dodgeball. Dodgeball is a gentler game played in a circular formation played by young children. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.141.202.232 (talk) 02:55, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

I played the circular version in elementary school. I played a variation of the version described in this article in high school when the weather was not suitable for outdoor games. They were both called dodgeball. I never heard "slaughterball" before. I think that the circular version deserves a place in this article. [edit] By the way, I am not at all sure that the circular version is "gentler" because I saw kids get hit in the head, or get tripped by the ball and knocked off their feet onto the concrete. Wastrel Way (talk) 21:58, 4 July 2020 (UTC) Eric

And... I have added a section. There is, amusingly, a photo of adults playing the circular version in the Playworks reference, and why not? Wastrel Way (talk) 22:24, 4 July 2020 (UTC) Eric

History section unreliable sources

This section makes the dubious and absurd-sounding claim that dodgeball originated in Africa 200 years ago, where people would throw rocks at each other with the intent to injure or even kill each other. I'll call this the "Out Of Africa Deathball Hypothesis". It cites three sources:

The first source is an article written by a high school student and published in his online high school newspaper in 2017. Wikipedia policy states "Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." High school students are not professional writers, and their papers do not have reputations for fact-checking and accuracy. The article cites no sources.

The second source is the commercial website of "Rebounderz Indoor Trampoline Arena and Extreme Fun Center." Yeah. It cites no sources either.

Both of the above sources seem to echo what is reported on https://infododgeball.weebly.com/history.html. This is a self-published source, an amateurish website hosted by Weebly, a free website hosting service. It does however have a "works cited" page, and it gives a citation for the history of dodgeball: "History of Dodgeball." GO Mammoth Social Sports & Fitness Club. Go Mammoth, n.d. Web. 18 Apr. 2014. I looked on the GO Mammoth Social Sports and Fitness Club website, and they do indeed have dodgeball leagues. They don't however, have a "History of Dodgeball" page or section. They don't provide any information on the history of dodgeball, let alone the absurd "Out Of Africa Deathball Hypothesis".

I've tagged both the section and the individual sources as unreliable, but ultimately this information should just be deleted. I'll leave it up a while longer just in case anyone can provide some better sourced history of the sport. 73.32.38.72 (talk) 21:09, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

The History section was added by User:Mephistoned. I agree with your argument and have told him so on his talk page. Spike-from-NH (talk) 03:34, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

• Azalea team usa.jpg
• Cody Wikipedia (2).jpg
• Mcgee team usa.jpg
• Opening rush.jpg
• Stone team usa.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:36, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

Infobox pic

there's no ball visible in the infobox pic, feel like it's not the most informative picture, it just looks like a man jumping seefooddiet (talk) 21:52, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Revert this change Thatdodgeballguy (talk) 04:37, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

For people missing context, see User talk:Seefooddiet#Please revert your recent changes on the Dodgeball page. I don't really agree with the rationale; it doesn't matter who is famous, what matters is clearly demonstrating the sport. Similarly, it'd be inappropriate to show like a picture of Tom Brady sitting on the bench for American football. It doesn't matter that Brady's famous, what matters is clearly showing what the sport is like. seefooddiet (talk) 04:44, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

The previous image from the world championships was clearing depicting the sport and is referenced across the web and on TV, changing this hurts the sport. This was an un-necessary edit to begin with. Thatdodgeballguy (talk) 04:51, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Precedent isn't everything, and I don't agree that my edit was unnecessary or somehow hurts the sport. We're at an impasse, more people should contribute to the discussion. seefooddiet (talk) 05:03, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

You came to a page and made a random change that didnt need to be made. There are balls in the image which you said was a problem, so that invalidates your reasoning. It will need to be edited back. Thatdodgeballguy (talk) 05:19, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Please keep this civil. You're free to disagree with my edit, but calling it entirely baseless isn't fair. "It will need to be edited back" goes against Wikipedia's need for WP:CONSENSUS. That's why I'm saying we should wait for other people to reply. Also let's please avoid repeating the same arguments again, per WP:BLUDGEON. Let's wait for others to hop in; you're free to ask around elsewhere for more opinions too per Wikipedia:Third opinion. seefooddiet (talk) 05:22, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

It does not go against that due to it not being a proper concern since there are balls in the image :) that’s cited in consensus as you mentioned so it is a civil conversation pointing you that you made an improper edit. Thatdodgeballguy (talk) 05:25, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

And I don't agree that the balls push the image over the line of being fully representative of the sport. Calling my argument objectively baseless or improper is not civil. I didn't call your arguments "baseless" or "improper" because it's needlessly rude. seefooddiet (talk) 05:31, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I never called it completely baseless, it seems you are breaking the conduct your linking. I pointed out that due to your direct quote “ there's no ball visible in the infobox pic” and there was. That this was an improper edit breaking terms of service. Thatdodgeballguy (talk) 05:35, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

"This was an un-necessary edit to begin with" implies "This edit was pointless".

I should have been clearer in my edit comment: "there's no ball being thrown that's visible". And please be more specific on what rules of conduct I am breaking. seefooddiet (talk) 05:39, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the current/new pic is better representative of what the sport overall looks like, than the old one. The old pic clearly doesn't show a ball being thrown by a player. Perhaps we could use some cropping out of the sides of the new image though, to make it more focussed on the action. — AP 499D25 (talk) 08:47, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I also agree that the ball is not obvious in File:Andrew_Ketchum_dodging_a_ball_at_the_World_Dodgeball_Championships_in_Los_Angeles_in_2018.jpg. The image File:Dodgeball.jpg was actually the original infobox image prior to mid 2019, but since the Ketchum image has been uncontested from then to now (I believe) that one (File:Andrew_Ketchum_dodging_a_ball_at_the_World_Dodgeball_Championships_in_Los_Angeles_in_2018.jpg) should be considered the status quo. File:Dodgeball.jpg can be improved by heavy cropping on both sides as AP 499D25 points out), but it's really not a good photo as it is out of focus. Are there any other options for high quality images that clearly show one or more balls in play? Meters (talk) 09:02, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Answering the call for additional opinions: I agree that the Ketchum photo doesn't really show what is going on in a game of dodgeball. Disagree with Thatdodgeballguy on seefooddiet's talk page that "The point is to help grow the sport", nor by illustrating one of its stars. The point is to give a useful description. A four-person pick-up game is not optimal either. I join Meters in calling for a high-quality image, perhaps from tournament play. And join the call to keep the discussion civil. Spike-from-NH (talk) 11:13, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Agree that another picture would be better. seefooddiet (talk) 16:47, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I also agree another picture would be better displaying all aspects of the play Thatdodgeballguy (talk) 18:08, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

History

No info about the sport's history in the body. The Japanese article's history section is actually more developed, although still not great. It says there's a theory that the sport came from England in the early 20th century. seefooddiet (talk) 21:54, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2024

This page doesn’t show the potencial violence that dodgeball has, so changing the beginning part to like “Dodgeball is a team sport like a violence in which players on two opposing teams try to throw balls and hit opponents while avoiding being hit themselves.” is needed. 211.19.105.216 (talk) 08:28, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done:Please stop this. Your edit along these lines was undone multiple times. The page is protected, at least partially, because of your edits. Clearly this is a controversial change which has no support. Meters (talk) 09:00, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Concur. Clearly, the Intro should not include a value judgement. The section Controversies adequately addresses opinions about the sport. (PS — "Like a violence"?) Spike-from-NH (talk) 10:51, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

I'll just jump in here to say I disagree with this change, as it gives the article a non-neutral, negatively-biased POV. The change would make sense if the sport was widely regarded by people, organisations, news publications etc as being actually a "violence sport", but that's not the case here. We write articles from the neutral point of view. — AP 499D25 (talk) 10:59, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

(Redacted)

regarded on this and this, AP 499D25. 114.145.238.135 (talk) 11:35, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2024 (2)

This page doesn’t show the potencial violence that dodgeball has, so changing the beginning part to like “Dodgeball is a team sport like a violence in which players on two opposing teams try to throw balls and hit and get opponents hurt while avoiding being hit and hurt themselves. The objective of each team is to eliminate all members of the opposing team by hitting and getting them hurt with thrown balls, catching a ball thrown by an opponent, or inducing an opponent to commit a violation, such as stepping outside the court.” (Personal attack removed) 114.145.238.135 (talk) 10:09, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Left guide (talk) 11:52, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

Controversies

It's not a good section-title, it would be good if we could have a better one, perhaps "Criticism" or "Critique"? 114.145.238.135 linked above to a page that had some potentially useful sources:

• Dodgeball is a tool of ‘oppression’ used to ‘dehumanize’ others, researchers argue
• 'Legalized bullying': Stop playing dodgeball in schools, UBC professor urges
• Don't pick on dodgeball. It's no more 'oppressive' or 'problematic' than any sport

Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:15, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

One more:

• Encyclopedia of Play in Today's Society p174-175

Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:21, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

"Criticisms" sounds good to me. I'll just add that is is not support for the SPA IPs' repeated attempts to label this sport as "a violence" [sic] and that one of its goals is to "get opponents hurt". Meters (talk) 02:42, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I saw that wording, not good. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:28, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Please note that 114.145.238.135 or other IPs are cross-wiki vandalism. See here. --Y-route (talk) 12:26, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: How WP:DUE are these sources in relation to general overall scholarship on the subject? Left guide (talk) 02:09, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

I'd say they're good for 2-3 sentences at least. It's a small section. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:42, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

@Y-route: Thank you. I was not aware of the cross wiki issue, or of the other English Wiki articles affected. Meters (talk) 02:30, 10 August 2024 (UTC)