Talk:December 2022 North American winter storm/Archive 1

Archive 1

More Canada traffic stuff to add

100 vehicle pileup on 401 https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/12/highway-401-pile-up-100-vehicles/

Sections of Highway 401 and 402 were closed, https://london.ctvnews.ca/stay-home-highway-402-section-of-highway-401-remain-closed-on-saturday-1.6208224 even Toronto to Quebec Border was closed as well.

I don't know how to edit wikis but these are notable enough to add to it. 2607:FEA8:96DC:7700:B1E1:DFA1:848D:2D41 (talk) 16:29, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

OH they are in there. 2607:FEA8:96DC:7700:B1E1:DFA1:848D:2D41 (talk) 16:35, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Canadian Fatalities

Are the 4 fatalities in British Columbia from the storm? I’m doubting they are. Elijahandskip (talk) 01:32, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Although this storm's meteorological history section has it "affecting the Rockies", I'd say the link is pretty tenuous. Similar road conditions, certainly, and in a sense, all wind is related, but no. Count me out on counting West Coast crashes, from Alaska to Baja. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:41, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

I’m not talking about location, more about the date. Oregon was hit on the 20/21st, so obviously, the Oregon fatality is from the storm, but I don’t think the BC fatalities on the 24th were from it. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:43, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Oh. Well, the storm was certainly ongoing elsewhere on the 24th, which indirectly affected everything surrounding it. But the inline CNN source doesn't mention any effect on the Rockies on that day. It doesn't even say the storm affected the Rockies at any point, on second look, just that "The storm will strengthen over the Northern Plains through the day as heavy snow falls across much of the Rockies, the Northern Plains and into the Midwest". That's a prediction of correlation, not an observation of causation. So yeah, still no from me. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:48, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

InedibleHulk, just so you know, WPC posted a graphic that shows the front went to Northern California and then continued to the Rockies before dropping south to Texas and Dixie Alley. Just letting you know. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:02, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Twitter doesn't work on this browser, but I believe you; good to know. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:06, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

• Pinging the editor who added them so maybe some extra thoughts can go in. @Ionmars10:. Currently, I’m leaning with InedibleHulk on not including them. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:54, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

  My personal opinion is to not include the deaths in the death toll but mention them as possible fatalities in the article, saying it is unknown if this storm was responsible for the crash. 12.207.51.104 (talk) 03:01, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

  Yeah, now that I think about it was kind of WP:OR of me to include it when there wasn't any explicit mention of this particular storm in the article. So I won't object to it being removed, at least until more information is available about the cause of the crash. Ionmars10 (talk) 03:12, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

It might also be worth considering that the CBC piece linked here ties this crash (at least chronologically) to an ongoing story about BC's weeklong heavy rainstorm warnings. Rain and flooding are probably far enough removed from a storm so prominently lumped together by snow and cold. Are there any sources saying the crash was possibly caused by the storm? If not, I'll have to disagree with 104's proposed solution. No offense, bud! InedibleHulk (talk) 03:04, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

I didn’t realize that. I based that off of what was done at Tornado outbreak of April 27–30, 2014: a car crash killed someone at the ramp between 495 and 295, and now that I checked, the source does explicitly state it was a possible, but not confirmed, cause of the crash. I’ll remove it now. 12.207.51.104 (talk) 03:10, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

I do believe that it can be added to the list of fatalities https://news.sky.com/story/us-bomb-cyclone-at-least-50-dead-as-north-america-gripped-by-devastating-winter-storm-12774427 2607:FEA8:96DC:7700:B1E1:DFA1:848D:2D41 (talk) 16:38, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

That would do it! That directly links it to the storm. Elijahandskip (talk) 19:19, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Possible Duluth, MN storm-related death

https://www.fox21online.com/2022/12/23/duluth-police-missing-woman-found-dead-outside/ 67.132.175.194 (talk) 05:44, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

That would be cold wave related. We should ask Elijahandskip if it would be good enough. 96.76.78.33 (talk) 19:25, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

In that link, the fatality hasn’t been linked to the storm yet, so let’s not. Elijahandskip (talk) 20:25, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Impact section reworking

What’s with the weird layout of the article? The impact section should be similar to Hurricane Ian’s where it is by region (in this case, state or localized region) rather than by topic. Last night, I tried to organize it that way, but other editors have since reverted back to the by topic layout. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:56, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Pinging the main editors of this page: ElijahPepe, Ionmars10, Präziser, Andrew Davidson, Phoenix7777, Cyclonetracker7586. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:56, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

The Impact section doesn't need to be anything. Clearly, this winter storm has a centralized yet broad impact that a region-based layout could not meet. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 18:10, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

If not by region, I think it could still be condensed a little (not removing any content, just altering section headings). Maybe consolidating "Flight delays and cancellations", "Train delays and cancellations", and "Road closures"? Penitentes (talk) 14:40, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Is it also an ice storm ?

if yes, Category:Ice storms in the United States should be added. Präziser (talk) 09:42, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

So far I haven't seen any official classifications that way (though there have been media reports calling it an ice storm). There are probably sufficient blizzard conditions for to get though. Lengau (talk) 21:22, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Agreed this is a blizzard since there have been hurricane force winds in NY and possibly other places, which is the appropriate word for a severe winter storm of this kind. It seems to be ice storm in many other the county, as far west as Oregon where I am. Jaredscribe (talk) 19:11, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

The ice storm in the Northwest, which occurred concurrently, was a separate storm system? If that's the case, should this article be pluralized for its title? CrazyC83 (talk) 22:11, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Christmas plans cancelled

An anonymous editor keeps removing this section with inadequate justification. If you see it gone, please restore it, and if you feel that this is "insignificant" or "unnecessary", please argue your case below the blockquote instead of removing it from the article.

Many people had to cancel their plans for the Christmas holiday. CNN reports that it "wrecked Christmas plans". The Washington Post calls it the "Christmas week winter storm", noting that over 16,000 flights were canceled from during the busiest travel season of the year. USA Today called it the "Pre-christmas blizzard", while FOX Weather calls it the "Christmas week bomb cyclone".

Thanks, Jaredscribe (talk) 21:55, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

References

Thats trivia and fails weight. Plans of course are cancelled whenever there is severe weather, and this just happened to be during christmas. nableezy - 00:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

The prominent mention and significant weight given in headlines of multiple mainstream media outlets indicates that it is not, in mainstream opinion, "trivia". The "of course" factor of the coincidence does not lessen its "Impact" on society, which is the subject of its parent section. Both objections to inclusion are over-ruled. Regards, Jaredscribe (talk) 00:20, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Also, the experience of common people taken in the aggregate deserves DUE mention alongside institutional effects. I for one couldn't care less about some corporations or professional sports games postponed, and it is not significant from my subjective point of view: of course games will be postponed, and offices closed .. who cares? Nevertheless I don't attempt to delete it from the article, because its important to someone.

Adding the experience of the common man and woman restores due weight to the article. C.f.

Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Due and undue weight Regards, Jaredscribe (talk) 00:28, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

What people do doesnt mean it deserves a section. A sentence or two is enough. I wouldn’t put too much weight into Fox Weather as Fox News has questionable reliability in science (which includes weather.)12.207.51.104 (talk) 02:00, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

There is no prominent mention or significant headlines about this. This is trivia, and most coverage of the storm, one that killed approaching 40+ people in just Buffalo, doesnt discuss Christmas being "canceled" at all. Stop edit-warring, and abid by WP:ONUS which requires consensus for all challenged material. nableezy - 02:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Cold high???

The use of the words "Record Cold High" in the article is confusing, shouldnt it just be record lows?

Both temperature scales are based on a linear scale for heat.. with lower temperatures having a lower reading? 2A00:23C7:DB80:A101:953A:9ED:436C:CC1E (talk) 22:07, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Record low highs and record lows aren’t the same thing. A record cold high is the coldest “high” on a date. A lot of time record lows and record low highs don’t realign. For instance, NYC’s high of 33F on March 28, 2022 was a record cold high, but the record low for the date is 13F - which was well below the 23F low the city had that day.--12.207.51.104 (talk) 01:59, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Does the animated graphic relate to this too? Again given that it's about a low temperature event, labelling it as 'High temperatures' (as the source does) may leave readers confused. More explanation is required. Geopersona (talk) 07:55, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

This confusion is caused by calling "daily maximum temperature" as "high temperature" or "high" and "daily minimum temperature" as "low temperature" or "low" in the United States. "Record Cold High" means "Record low (daily) maximum temperature ".―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 02:09, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Should we add the Southwest Airlines cancellations

I’ve noticed that many Southwest Airlines flights were delayed or cancelled. Since this is a significant event, should it be included in this article or get a seperate article? If there’s any mention of the cancellations, let me know. 173.228.198.201 (talk) 02:46, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Both, apparently. See Late December 2022 North American winter storm#Flight delays and cancellations as well as the just-created 2022 Southwest Airlines flight delays article. --MuZemike 15:08, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

The Southwest Airlines flight delays article should be merged into this one unless someone can make it of substantial length to justify its own article. 12.207.51.104 (talk) 16:59, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't see a reason to merge. Based on news articles online, the issue involved a combination of the storm, staffing, the holidays, and (most importantly) outdated technology. The main Southwest Airlines article covers it briefly in the Accidents and incidents section and might be a better merge candidate if it does end up needing merged. --Super Goku V (talk) 01:24, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Because this is a split from two well established articles, we need to adhere to WP:SPINOFF, which means we don’t split away until it gets too large to handle in a main article. It’s better for readers to have all the information in as little places as possible. The 2021 Texas power crisis was different - we had no choice due to the overwhelming size of the February 13-17, 2021 North American winter storm. But in this case we do have a choice. We can simply list it in this article. The article is growing however, and should be expanded around fivefold from here to stay. 12.207.51.104 (talk) 11:22, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Fivefold? It is no longer a stub article and that should be fine. Sometimes readers want to know more about a subject and will go to other pages to learn more. That is fine and acceptable. --Super Goku V (talk) 18:42, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 24 December 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to December 2022 North American winter storm. There seems to be clear consensus to move this article. The disambiguation has been moved to December 2022 North American winter storm (disambiguation). (closed by non-admin page mover) echidnaLives - talk - edits 02:01, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

---

Late December 2022 North American winter storm → December 2022 North American winter storm – "Late" disambiguator is unneeded as no other December 2022 North American winter storm is notable enough to warrant an article and the link is currently a redirect to a more general topic. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 03:05, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Oppose — Doesn’t matter about notability. December 2022 North American winter storm is a needed DAB page since there was a complete separate blizzard attached to a tornado outbreak (which has an article). Late is needed for that reason. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:09, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Then it should actually be a DAB page and not a redirect. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 03:10, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

@GhostOfDanGurney: Fixed it into a DAB page. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:15, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Are there any sources that say that the blizzard affected parts of Canada? If not, I'm still not convinced that the DAB is needed. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 03:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

BBC News “Canada has also been heavily affected by the adverse weather conditions, with an estimated 410,000 people currently without power. More than 330,000 of those are in Quebec, while Ontario is also seeing widespread blackouts” & AP News. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:17, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm referring to the one attached to the tornado outbreak. All I have to do to see that there's a blizzard in Ontario right now is look outside. :] - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 04:22, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

The Dec 12-15 one did not affect Canada (or minimal impact at least). Nevertheless, it affected the US from the Great Plains to New England and was classified a blizzard by NWS. DAB page is 100% necessary due to both having large scale impacts and both being December 2022 winter storms & blizzards. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't disagree that it was large scale and in December 2022, but if it didn't affect Canada, why does it need to be referred to as "North American"? Wouldn't a better name for the tornado-attached blizzard be December 2022 United States winter storm (and thus would make a DAB unneeded)? - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 04:37, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Aye. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:05, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Calling a blizzard a blizzard instead of a winter storm might make sense, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:08, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Yes. I'm fine with either or. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 05:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Sources do seem to be tending towards blizzard for this current storm. The Weather Network Global News Accuweather SI although CNN and USA Today both use "winter storm" [1] [2] - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 15:38, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This is far more notable then the December 12-16 event, and that event was a tornado event anyway. 64.25.27.224 (talk) 16:12, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support because December 12 to 15 is in fall, not winter. The current storm is at the start of winter. I experienced the Dec. 4 ice storm, which split pear trees because they still had their leaves, thus more ice weight — definitely was not winter yet. phma (talk) 19:29, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

  That means squat. November 2022 Great Lakes winter storm.12.206.84.79 (talk) 23:00, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

  Also, meteorologically speaking, early-mid December is winter. Ionmars10 (talk) 02:03, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Support per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Also, the page currently named December 2022 North American winter storm can be moved to December 2022 North American winter storm (disambiguation). RandomInfinity17 (talk) 17:35, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

I don't think that will be necessary. If anything, we could hatnote this page to link to the other topic disambiguated there. But I doubt that will be necessary either. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 19:20, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support The other entry disambiguated on that page is not clearly linked to this name, and this is a clunkier name that I doubt people are specifically using to try to find those side effects of the tornado outbreak earlier this month (even if the result were similar). This topic has clearly superseded that one in importance and if there truly is any contest by which both topics are vying for this name, the clear cut winner has to be this one. Zeke, the Mad Horrorist ^{(Speak quickly)} _{(Follow my trail)} 19:16, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support - should have been moved already, what's taking so long? No other storms occurred in month of December, why was "late" included in the first place? Yodabyte (talk) 01:18, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

@Yodabyte: Actually, December 12-15 had a major blizzard that affected the Great Plains and New England. So based on your reasoning, your support !vote is invalid. Elijahandskip (talk) 01:35, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

But you have yet to answer why that one should be listed on a DAB page for December 2022 "North American" winter storms when it only affected the United States, nor Zeke, the Mad Horrorist's points which I fully agree with. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 02:19, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

impacts to Canada. Published December 12. It did impact Canada, not nearly close to as bad as the US, but still impacts. Therefore, two international blizzards in December 2022. DAB must remain. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:01, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Terri Lang, meteorologist at Environment Canada, said this storm is typical for this time of year and will likely only affect southeastern Saskatchewan and southern Manitoba with drifting snow and winds.

According to this source, the "impact" to Canada was a typical snowfall that we get 10 times a season. Seems like a bit of a reach to use this in order to insist on keeping this article at a less WP:CONCISE title in the face of an emerging consensus that this subject is far more notable than the December 12 event (which, as a reminder, doesn't even have its own article). - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 03:27, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Technically, it has its own article under Tornado outbreak of December 12–15, 2022. A separate winter storm article would be a content fork since it is the same system. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:42, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Hmmmm…yes and no. If the blizzard really was that notable, it’d be a storm complex or a blizzard article. An example is the March 20-22, 2018 nor'easter, which despite spawning multiple destructive tornadoes, is most remembered for its record breaking blizzard. 12.207.51.104 (talk) 03:57, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

One problem with that idea: That 2018 outbreak was extremely small and by itself not notable enough for an article. 5 significant tornadoes only, which would normally be a section in the respective Tornadoes of (year) article. In that case, the blizzard was THE talking point of that storm system, so obviously it is more known for the blizzard. This is the opposite situation. In this case, the system is well known for the tornado outbreak (3rd largest in history during the month of December) and it had 21 significant tornadoes, which is good enough for a stand alone article. That system had a blizzard tacked onto it, but the significant part was the tornado outbreak. In a way, you just proved my point. Would it be right to put “March 2018 United States tornado outbreak” as a redirect to the blizzard article or as a DAB page? Obviously a DAB page. Likewise, why should we just disregard a significantly impacting storm system just because it is more known for something else? You basically just explained the situation in an exact opposite scenario to this one. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:10, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

The only reason why I’d agree the march 2018 tornado outbreak isn’t notable by itself is because the Andover KS tornado from this April also didn’t get an article. The march 2018 tornado outbreak gained notability because a tornado heavily damage a college in Alabama. To steer us back on topic: my point is that this will be known as the “December 2022 winter storm.” If you mention a winter storm from December 2022 blizzard it’ll be this one. Not the one from mid month.12.207.51.104 (talk) 04:20, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

Then why is the march nor’easter not the March 2018 nor’easter? If you want the title to be more refined, why not make it “December 21–25, 2022 North American winter storm” or just “December 21–25, winter storm”? Having “late” removes the need for the date. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:40, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

If that one system is more notable for the tornado outbreak than the blizzard (and its title appears to indicate that), and there's an emerging consensus that the December 21 storm is the PRIMARYTOPIC for "December 2022 North American winter storm" (and actually had major effects in Canada as well as the United States), then what exactly are we arguing? A 2-item DAB isn't exactly needed when we can use a hatnote to direct anyone searching for the December 12 event to the appropriate article. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 04:44, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support. Immediately, I ask: "What other December storm?" So yea, the qualifier "late" isn't necessary. KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 05:58, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

@KyuuA4: Scroll/read up. A “What other December winter storm in 2022” style comment isn’t necessarily valid due to a blizzard on December 12–15. Other policy things like PRIMARYTOPIC is, but based on your exact !vote, it is invalid. You may want to amend it slightly. Elijahandskip (talk) 06:40, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I think that's for the closer to decide. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 07:08, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nom. PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:23, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support — per nom. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 15:19, 27 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support per other arguments above. Unlimitedlead (talk) 21:21, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

• Alternative Option given the death toll for this storm, which exceeds that of many blizzards from the last few decades, and the fact blizzard conditions were clearly observed in Buffalo area, Fort Erie, Ontario and other areas of Ontario, plus I believe, in Minnesota and Michigan, I believe this storm should be renamed - North American Blizzard of December 2022. This differentiates it from the earlier December winter storm. This has become the greatest storm by deaths in western New York, an area known for mamoth snow storms.(I admit I forget how to "sign" my IP address). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.189.234.205 (talk) 22:16, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

https://phys.org/news/2022-12-dead-savage-blizzard-power-snarls.html This article clearly says the National Weather Service warned that blizzard conditions would continue for the Great Lakes' states on Christmas Day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.189.234.205 (talk) 22:26, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

• Alternative B Christmas-week blizzard/winter storm/bomb-cyclone. This accords with the name used by WashingtonPost and Fox Weather, is concise, and disambiguates. See section below #Christmas plans cancelled The two separate questions are 1) how to account for the date? (december/late december/christmas week/pre-christmas) how to describe the event? (blizzard / winter storm / bomb cyclone). I would vote for naming the article the Christmas week bomb cyclone and blizzard of 2022 with or without "north-american" put in the title. Regards, Jaredscribe (talk) 22:35, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

  Oppose the bolded wording; I disagree strongly that it is concise. "December 2022 [blizzard/winter storm/bomb cyclone]" more directly informs readers of the date of the event. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 15:00, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. I can support Alternative B as well. ✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 22:49, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

• Alternative Optioncontinued...Christmas Week sounds like it happened on or just after Christmas when in fact the worst hit areas were worst-hit on December 23 and 24th. Bomb cyclone is too confusing to average readers. December or late December Blizzard is the way to go. I note that the late January 2022 blizzard only killed 4 people but is labelled as a blizzard because the criteria was met in 3 or 4 jurisdictions (including Boston and eastern Long Island). This one meets it in western New York, four different areas of Ontario, Ohio, Michigan and maybe some others.142.189.234.205 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:05, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

https://www.weather.gov/arx/dec2322 - shows blizzard criteria (40 m/h) was met in Wisconsin, Iowa and Minnesota.142.189.234.205 (talk) 23:22, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/26/us-winter-storm-death-toll-rises-as-thousands-still-without-power The New York Governor is calling it the blizzard of the century.142.189.234.205 (talk) 02:38, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

• Alternative option: Here is something else to consider... at least in the Buffalo are, "Blizzard of 2022" is becoming more of the WP:COMMONNAME, even though it's regional in nature. I already went ahead and disambiguated that page from the January snowstorm. dekema (Formerly Buffaboy) (talk) 05:03, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

  Support "Blizzard of 2022", though if that fails to gain enough traction, alternatively support original proposal. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:54, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

  Oppose Blizzard of 2022. The January blizzard was record breaking in Boston and Providence, and a lot of the impacts weren’t as a blizzard. Remember: only half the deaths were in Buffalo, and there were certainly heavy impacts in Ohio and other states, even as far as British Colombia had 4 fatalities. --67.148.24.106 (talk) 18:58, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

  Oppose "Blizzard of 2022" per 67.148.... - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 14:55, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

• Middle-ground Solution - December 2022 North American Blizzard and Cold Snap. The storm was a blizzard in Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, western and northern New York, southwestern Ontario, Niagara within Ontario and the Kingston area within Ontario (near northern New York) (I say this as a primary author of both this article and the January 2022 NA blizzard article).142.189.234.205 (talk) 19:09, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support original proposal and option B. Clearly this storm is more notable and serious. Only one to attract attention across the pond. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 20:28, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support Easily considered WP:PRIMARYTOPIC based on sourcing. DAB page is unnecessary as hatnotes can suffice per WP:ONEOTHER. Neutral/oppose on alternative options as I think it's WP:TOOSOON for the other names to be established as primary. Qwaiiplayer (talk) 04:45, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support: This topic is quite clearly the Primary Topic, and the proposed name is more concise and more likely to be searched. A hatnote will suffice for linking to the other possible storm it could be referring to. I don't quite like some of the alternatives because they seem too wordy (unnecessary precision, beyond what is needed to identify the topic), but would be appropriate redirects. —Danre98^{(talk^contribs)} 16:28, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
• Support Alternatives especially December 2022 North American Blizzard and Cold Wave: This weather system clearly contained a large blizzard, one that was specifically identified in about 10 states and provinces, and should be labeled as such. If this is not a blizzard then I do not know what is (about 60 deaths from the blizzard). It was worse in Buffalo and parts of Ontario than the blizzard of 1977, which is labeled as a blizzard. The weather system also contained a large cold wave. A cold wave is not really a storm so labeling that a storm is incorrect. The event is a blizzard and a cold wave.Eastern Cougar (talk) 11:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

  The "...and Cold Wave" makes it far less WP:CONCISE, imo. As stated above, no opposition here about using "blizzard" > "winter storm". - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" ^{(work / talk)} 13:11, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

• Support move, dropping "Late" from the title and keeping the rest of the title as-is. --MuZemike 16:49, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Inaccurate description to geographic location

the storm "covered much of Canada" is false when it only states Ontario, as , geographically, Canada is the second largest land mass in the world with Ontario covering only a small section. The context and focus of the way this article is written makes it seem that Canada is somehow, geographically, similar in size to the US which of course it is not. An area covering the provinces affected, like described for the US, would make this page accurate. As in so MANY pages, this article is also written by an American author who does not accurately describe Canadian terminology, geographic data, or descriptions correctly, leading to misleading and/or false, inaccurate information to a reader not familiar with North America. Jcqpoier (talk) 11:56, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Actually, in terms of providences, most of Canada was impacted, from the west coast in British Columbia (where 4 fatalities occurred) to the east coast. So Ontario was not the only location in Canada impacted by the storm system. Elijahandskip (talk) 15:50, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

If Canada had a bit more providence, we wouldn't have been hit by the storm at all. Matt Deres (talk) 01:16, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

The weather bombs only covered Ontario, Québec and Atlantic Canada. BC was affected by another totally different system while the Prairies and the Arctic were under a frigid High pressure areas. Those who think that the second largest country can be affected by only one weather system are fooling themselves. Pierre cb (talk) 14:04, 2 January 2023 (UTC)